Health Committee on April 29th, 2024

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I just want to clarify that because there may have been a misperception that coercion is part of the cornerstone of Portugal's approach. I was fortunate to be able to travel to Portugal with my colleague Mr. Johns and to directly have a prolonged meeting with Dr. Goulão.

Coercion is definitely not part of the Portugal approach. There is a dissuasion panel. There is a host of measures using the five pillars, including reintegration, that really address the clients' needs, whether that's housing, harm reduction, Suboxone or methadone, or a readiness for treatment, along with the capacity for all of those based on compassion, central coordination and an integrated approach.

I'll pass it to Marcus.

Maybe I can get one minute back at the end, Marcus.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I would just like to let Dr. Mathew finish his story about increasing random attacks. I think he was going to tie that in to mental illness and drug use.

Maybe you could just finish that story, and then I'll give it back to Brendan if we have any time.

[Dr. Nickie Mathew]

Sure.

I mentioned it in my talk, but I think one of the big issues is the rise of phenyl-2-propanone meth. I said that earlier in my introduction.

When they were making crystal meth.... There are two enantiomers, two types. They're like handedness. The l-methamphetamine is a nasal decongestant, and the d-methamphetamine is the psychoactive component. They made it so that it's pure d-methamphetamine, so when you take the same amount, you're more likely to have a psychoactive outcome.

I think the rise of this in the drug market has helped fuel a lot of the psychosis that we're seeing.

I think all of these things combined are the things that are leading to increased random-stranger attacks in the population.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have two minutes.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Excellent.

Dr. Caudarella, I want to come back to you. We have touched a little bit on decriminalization here and there during this meeting. I know that you are based in B.C. I want to know what Canada should learn from the B.C. pilot to date, and what you would be advising Toronto and potentially other jurisdictions about what to incorporate to make a decriminalized approach successful.

[Dr. Alexander Caudarella]

Thank you.

Although I did work in Vancouver, I am now based in Ottawa.

There are a number of really important lessons. First of all, most decriminalization or alternatives to criminalization have required various adjustments at various points. The community has made it clear that they want to be involved and and to negotiate part of how public spaces are used.

We need to create more opportunities for people to talk, and to talk in different ways. There needs to be really good access to treatment. I also think we need to remember that if, for example, we're going to ask a police officer to take someone to a hospital instead of to jail—I can tell you because I've seen this so many times—we can't expect the police officer to wait there the whole day for the patient to be seen.

We need a lot of different levers. We need to make sure there are tools in that tool kit. What we've heard from law enforcement and the partners we work with is that this is part of a long arc that's trying not to punish the people for the symptoms we're trying to treat. At the end of the day, the goal is really to provide people with as much access as possible through as big of an open door as possible.

What we're hearing from people is that they want to be part of this. They want to have discussions. CCSA will be hosting a summit in the coming months on open drug use because people want to be involved in this discussion. They don't want to penalize people. They don't want to punish people, but they want to have this discussion about what it is. We need to listen to people. We need to adjust. It's not just small groups of people. We need to make sure that everyone's involved in that discussion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Caudarella.

That concludes the questions for today's panel.

I want to thank you very much for the passion you bring to your work and the patience you've brought to this meeting. All of it is greatly appreciated and will be extremely valuable to us in making recommendations to Parliament and to the government.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We're adjourned.