Health Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Do you have deals with these provinces? Do you have a deal with Alberta, Saskatchewan, Quebec...?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

We do. There are 26 deals across the country.

Yes, we have deals with every single province and every single territory on health care. They were negotiated collaboratively, and I'm very confident that we'll get the deal on pharmacare as well.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

With regard to pharmacare, do you have deals with the provinces on pharmacare?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

That would violate Parliament. Parliament needs to adopt this legislation before I can do that. I would be negotiating with no parliamentary authority, and I'm not allowed to do that.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Will your committee of experts have representatives from provinces and territories?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm open to your feedback, so if you—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Can you commit to having—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

On the committee of experts, I think it's exceptionally important that we have people who understand the current context, and obviously consultations with provinces and territories will be a critical part of their process.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Minister, I want to bring forward an amendment to ensure that there are representatives named by every single province and territory across the country to make sure that their voices are heard when it comes to the committee of experts. Will you allow the Liberal-NDP members on this committee to support that amendment, yes or no?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I don't think any more consultation than federal-provincial consultation is—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

You won't support that amendment.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

No, and I'll tell you why. That's an extraordinary number of people for an unnecessary outcome. In negotiating with the provinces, I talk—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

You don't think negotiating with provinces is a good idea.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I do that every day.

I mean, there's not a province or territory that I'm not speaking to on a daily basis, and that will continue. I've been to every province and every territory—at least twice with the provinces, and once in the case of the territories—and I'm talking every day with them, so that consultation is an ongoing process—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I think that is exceptionally condescending to provinces that have their own jurisdiction on this—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Goodridge. That's your time.

We go to Ms. Sidhu, please, for five minutes.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and your team, for being here with us.

The discussion is very important. It's historic legislation that aims to increase equitable access to contraceptives and diabetes medication.

Minister, as you know, important progress has been made in our country with the national framework to fight diabetes. As we discuss Bill C-64, can you update this committee on the progress in implementing the national framework for diabetes as well?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you so much, Madam Sidhu, and I thank you for your advocacy, not only for this bill but against diabetes generally.

The framework is so important, and this is actually part of the framework. One thing the framework identified was access to medication, so this is a really important step forward, along with other actions we're taking, such as establishing the Canadian drug agency and running a pilot in the chair's home province of P.E.I. to help folks there.

There have been a series of actions. The framework really laid out the path, and this is demonstrative of our being serious about that framework.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Over the past few years, this government has put together several national programs to support the needs of vulnerable Canadians, including seniors. Many low-income senior citizens now have access to adequate dental care and to diabetes medication, and pharmacare is going to be transformative. We all know that.

How can these initiatives combined impact quality of life, including for seniors? They impact all Canadians, and we know that, but particularly seniors.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

In a very practical sense, I'll bring up dental care, because I just mentioned yesterday at noon that we surpassed 100,000 seniors, which in three weeks is pretty outstanding.

When you go and meet with a senior.... I think of Raphael. Yesterday, when I was in Toronto, I had an opportunity to talk with Raphael about what this meant. He could go in to get that care and he wasn't going to wind up sick. When I was in New Brunswick last week, I talked to dentists, who said, “Do you know what? I know the people who don't have access to dental care, and I know I'm going to see them in an emergency room, and I'm going to have to come in on a Saturday and not get paid and worry about whether or not they're going to lose their life because they didn't have access to care.”

It's the same thing for diabetes, and what we're making real with dental care we need to make real with diabetes medication and with contraceptives. It's about getting practical results and being upstream, which is not only about social justice: As I said, this is a huge opportunity to save money and avoid strain on our health system.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, access to the latest technology is essential in managing diabetes. How does this legislation and other measures proposed by this government improve access to technology and devices such as pumps, lancets and glucose monitoring devices?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

It's a really great point, because when we're talking about medication, we also have to think about the monitoring strips, pumps and syringes. As I mentioned, it's tragic, but people are reusing syringes and getting blood-borne diseases because they don't have the money for new syringes. To me, that's not the kind of country we want to be in, so having a device fund to make sure that people have access to the devices they need is really critical as well. That will be an important part of the conversation that we have with provinces.

On the technology question, that's a bigger answer. However, building common indicators, upgrading interoperability, focusing on health data—the health data charter that we signed in Charlottetown—and a whole bunch of other actions in health data are absolutely critical to make sure that we have a modern health system.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Mr. Chair, do I have time for one more question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have one minute.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Minister, we know that one Canadian out of four with diabetes has reported that they stopped following their treatment plans due to the cost. Could you explain how dangerous it is for Canadians living with diabetes to not have access to medication? What are the serious consequences? Is it costing them everything, including, sometimes, even their lives? Can you comment on that?