Health Committee on May 23rd, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks very much, Minister—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

What I've seen from employers is they're anxious to make sure that their employees continue to get coverage—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I think you've answered the question I've asked.

Again, you have to go on and on. Maybe you could just try answering the question instead of doing your political grandstanding.

That said, what you've now said is that what you've created is a very basic, inferior program on behalf of Canadians. I find that absolutely interesting.

Built into this bill, you talked about the creation of the Canadian drug agency, which I understand should have been stood up around May 1. It is in your purview as the Minister of Health, so I'll give you kudos on that.

Given that you could have actually created an agency that has significant oversight.... Maybe you don't realize it should have oversight, because the approvals that are done through the process, including Health Canada, the PMPRB, the new CDA, pCPA, etc., are some of the worst in the country, or maybe not the worst, and you could have actually changed that with this legislation, but you chose not to, can you tell Canadians why they're going to be left out in the cold waiting for new medications?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

They're only going to be left out in the cold waiting for new medications if you're successful in stopping them from getting their medication, in the first order. In the second order, Health Canada is known around the world not only for the rapidity with which we approve applications, but the quality.

Canadians should feel very proud not of me but of our health officials. Every day they do extraordinary work to make sure that the products, medications and food that Canadians consume are safe. I think that to cast any shadow on that would not only be not connected to fact, but—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks very much, Minister.

I think that what I asked about was the Canadian drug agency and why you didn't put some oversight into this bill with respect to the Canadian drug agency.

It's not my plan to stop Canadians from getting drugs; you are the one who will be responsible for having some oversight of the CDA, which you do not have.

Why do you choose not to do that on behalf of Canadians?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I would say that through our existing mechanisms, we have very strong oversight. We are recognized as being one of the best regulators in the world. When people look to approvals done by Health Canada, they know that this is a gold standard that other countries look up to.

I am extremely proud of the people who work in our public service every day to do that.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Minister, do you think it's okay that of the 460 medications that were brought forward from 2012 to 2021, Canadians would have access to only 44% of those? Do you think that's okay?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think that we have to be—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

It's a simple yes or no, Minister. Is that okay or not?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I don't get to dictate your questions; you don't get to dictate my answers—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

The answer is a simple yes or no.

Is it okay, yes or no?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

The answer is that when we approve medications, ensuring they're safe and ensuring that people aren't hurt—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

No, Minister. Is it okay that Canadians have access to only 44%, yes or no?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Making sure that they don't injure people's health is a hallmark of Canada's drug approval system that I am deeply proud of.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Again, you talk about people grandstanding and all you choose to do is continue to talk, which is quite impressive—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I don't know; you don't seem to want to let me answer.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Julian, go ahead on a point of order.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I think the tradition around this table has been that when you ask a question, you wait for the answer. I would appreciate it if we could get the answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Dr. Ellis, Mr. Julian" is correct, but there have been violations by both the person posing the question and the person answering the questions throughout this round, quite frankly.

There is about a minute left in your turn, Dr. Ellis, if you want to share with Mr. Steinley or if you'd like to carry on.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

That's correct, Chair. The rest of the time is for Mr. Steinley.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you, Minister Holland.

Did the Minister of Health from Saskatchewan ever ask for dental care or pharmacare from your government?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think they've asked a lot of questions about how we can work together on dental care. Those questions have been productive.

I expressed to both jurisdictions that if they wanted to operate those programs provincially, as long as they were at the same cost and the same quality, I would be open to that.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Minister, I have from their health minister that they have never asked the feds for dental care or pharmacare. Is he not telling me the truth or are you not telling me the truth?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

You can ask him whether or not he wants dental care. Dental care for nine million Canadians is coming.