Health Committee on June 6th, 2024

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Dr. Goulão, please finish what you were saying.

[Dr. João Goulão]

Thank you.

I was trying to explain that everybody had someone at home with drug-related problems. People tended to say that “my daughter” or “my boy” is not a criminal, they're someone in need of help, in need of treatment and in need of support. The social support for the idea of decriminalization was quite strong.

At the Parliament, things were a bit more complicated with a bipolarization between left-wing parties and with more conservatives opposing the idea. In any case, the win for the proposal of decriminalization back in 2000 was comfortable.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Can you tell us more about the stigma and the extent to which it's harder for people to get off drugs as a result?

[Dr. João Goulão]

In fact, if we are dealing with a criminal, the way that society looks at the person is different from the way society looks towards people who suffer from an illness. The respect that is devoted to that person is different under a criminalization framework than it is when you consider that you are dealing with a chronic relapsing condition, as Mr. Felicella already told us.

I believe this makes a lot of difference. Even among health personnel, the attitude became quite different.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

It also affects how willing or able a person is to seek help or admit that they have a problem, because it could jeopardize their job or housing. It's downhill from there, and people wind up on the streets.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Stephen Ellis]

Sorry, Mr. Thériault, but the answer will have to wait until the next round. Thank you.

Mr. Johns, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Dr. Goulão, for being here. It was great to meet you in Portugal. We can't thank you enough for taking the time to always help and share policies that have worked for you in Portugal.

When I was in Portugal, I learned about your response at the peak of your drug-related deaths. Your country went from 250 people on methadone to 35,000. You engaged the military to build labs for affordability and speed. You scaled up year-long treatment facilities across the country. You took a multi-faceted approach to this complex issue, and your numbers have gone from 100,000 chronic substance users to 23,000 today.

Do you see Canada responding in the way Portugal did to this health emergency? What would be the recommendations you'd make to Canada?

[Dr. João Goulão]

Thank you, sir.

To be honest, I don't know in depth the reality in Canada, but I think the investment and the availability to turn easily to access treatment facilities would be very important. The investment, in my view, is in treatment and harm reduction, as was already said, to gain the confidence and the trust of people. That is key to dealing with this kind of problem.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Again, we constantly hear certain politicians state that Portugal has forced treatment and that the dissuasion commission is about forced treatment. You've been clear that the Portugal model is not about forced treatment.

Can you explain why the Portuguese don't believe that forced treatment is the answer?

[Dr. João Goulão]

In fact, we find that motivation and, once again, providing people the minimum levels of dignity and allowing them to make their choices is much more effective than forcing someone to do whatever he doesn't want to do. I believe that we are much more effective if you provide.... If we have someone who is homeless and living on the streets, with no dignity, no access to hygiene or to health care, if we provide those conditions, then we can work on motivation to change the lifestyle.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Stephen Ellis]

Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Johns.

We'll now turn to Mrs. Goodridge.

Mrs. Goodridge, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Williams, education and prevention are key pillars of any good strategy to address addiction. I recently met with Dr. Victoria Burns. She's at the University of Calgary with a program called Recovery on Campus. I was really excited to hear about some of the really innovative and wonderful work they're doing to promote recovery on post-secondary campuses across Alberta.

I wonder if you could expand on and share why the Government of Alberta decided to create a program like this.

[Dan Williams]

Thank you for the question.

It's a terrific organization, Recovery on Campus. Of course, Dr. Burns has been an important part of getting that going. It started at the University of Calgary and is now at 26 post-secondary institutions, where they focus on recovery and opportunities for people to live campus life but also to live in recovery at the same time. We provide funding of approximately $1 million per year for that program, and we want to see it continue to expand.

Interestingly, the day I was sworn in as minister was June 9 of last year. My first event was that evening at a post-secondary institution, Red Deer Polytechnic, and it was an event with Dr. Burns. The first thing that happened to me when I went to registration was that an individual came up to me and gave me this coin. It's a 24-hour coin. I've kept it with me ever since that day. This person had been sober for 24 hours.

It's important. It's important for us to be able to grasp individual instances of hope. If you have a system that doesn't provide hope, if you have a system that doesn't fund recovery, that doesn't build beds, that turns harm reduction into some sort of marketing term rather than genuinely trying to help people, to convince people that, instead of treatment, we'll put resources and funds into safe supply to continue to palliate this addiction to the highest-powered pharmaceutical-grade opioids or whatever the substance is, I think that kills hope for those who see a possible life.

All of my office is in recovery. Our chief of staff in the Province of Alberta is in recovery. These are people of immense capacity. I believe deeply that this coin I have is the start of hope for somebody every single day when they get to touch that.

We as a province and we as a country need to embrace that hope. Otherwise, we're sending a message of despair to those who suffer from this disease.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Minister Williams.

I know the Government of Alberta has also made many other innovative moves, specifically investing in addiction recovery supports and recovery communities. There are 11, as you said in your opening statement, and four are on federal first nation reserves.

Why did the Government of Alberta choose to move forward with building recovery centres on first nation reserves when first nation health care is the responsibility of the federal government?

[Dan Williams]

It did because the Government of Alberta sees these people as humans and sees this as a question of dignity. These are Albertans like everyone else. We want to partner with our indigenous communities, and we're not waiting for the federal government to backfill the gap they've left. The first nation chiefs—I've just come from meeting with a Treaty 6 chief—all want to see recovery.

The only health care the federal government is truly responsible for is on-reserve first nation health care. That seems to be the only health care they're not willing to deliver when it comes to addiction treatment for first nations. The Government of Alberta is spending tens of millions of dollars on not just infrastructure but also programming.

Instead, we're asking the federal government to stop pushing the safe supply pouring over our border from B.C. and other places. You can't suck and blow at the same time.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

On that point, I know you wrote a letter to the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions asking for a chemical tracer to be put on. We've now seen the Government of British Columbia step on board because they've now admitted that diversion from these so-called safe supply programs is actually a very serious problem.

I wonder if you could share why the Government of Alberta has asked for that. How concerned are you about the diversion of this so-called safe supply program?

[Dan Williams]

The Government of Alberta has made safe supply illegal in the province. That's our right. It's our responsibility under the Constitution and the division of powers. We will continue to do that so long as we are elected as a government.

However, what else would you have Alberta do now, other than come and plead at this committee, and write letters to the minister that go unresponded to in substance, because we see 65 million pills a year being pumped into safe supply? Each one of those eight-milligram pills are more powerful than street heroin. These are pharmaceutical-grade opioids being mass distributed unwitnessed. What would you have Alberta do beyond opposing it here and making it illegal?

We need the federal government to take action on what is the most radical policy in the world. No one is doing this anywhere else. It's a failed policy. It's devastating.

I'm all for what people call “harm reduction” if it's naloxone kits, if it's drug treatment centres, if it's a virtual opioid dependency program or a needle exchange, but it becomes harm production when you become the purveyor of the hard, powerful drugs themselves. We oppose that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Stephen Ellis]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Goodridge.

We now go to Mrs. Brière for five minutes.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister Williams, I'm glad to see you again, sir.

I know that Minister Saks replied to your letter and offered to have officials from Health Canada discuss with yours the practical issue with chemical markers. Can you confirm if that meeting happened?

[Dan Williams]

I'm happy to meet with Minister Saks at any time on this.

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

It's not with Minister Saks, but with her officials. In her letter, she suggested a meeting with officials.

[Dan Williams]

I'm certainly happy to see the officials reaching out. I think that—

[Élisabeth Brière, Liberal, Sherbrooke, QC]

Can you confirm whether that meeting happened?

[Dan Williams]

I'll ask my officials if they have had the conversation. I think there would be a sense of urgency from the minister if she understood the consequences of diverted safe supply and high-powered opioids being mass-distributed into our communities.

We now admit, from B.C., that diversion is happening. The consequence of this.... We spoke to a researcher out of the United States on the addiction crisis, and he said that he believes there are as many opioids on the street now as there were under the high point of the oxycodone crisis in Canada, because of the safe supply being distributed by this government.