Health Committee on June 17th, 2024

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair; I don't believe there was an equivalency of time there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That was about a 40-second question and about a four-second answer before you interrupted there, Mrs. Goodridge.

Go ahead. You have another 30 seconds to answer that question.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A young doctor doesn't have huge accumulated capital assets. We're not talking salary here; we're talking capital assets.

In the last five years, those people who had the money to have capital assets have made an extraordinary amount of money, and I think it's fair to ask them to pay a bit more.

You know who hasn't made an extraordinary amount of money on capital assets? They are personal support workers, nurses and plumbers, and those folks are looking at the marginal tax rate they pay and asking why they should pay a higher tax rate than somebody else.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think that's unjust, and I think having a fair system enables—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

No, Minister, now this is my time.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—us to make the investments that we need in our health care system.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Minister, please....

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Minister, respectfully, I appreciate that you think you can just talk over everybody, because that's what you've been doing so far, but I'm going to say that this is my time.

I've asked very specifically what analysis Health Canada did on the number of doctors who would flee our borders and go practise elsewhere as a direct application of implementing these reckless tax changes.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I've just explained that I see no evidence of that and that the equity that I just stated is very clear. Asking a nurse to pay a higher marginal tax rate than a millionaire—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

Are you saying that Health Canada—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—isn't fair, and we need a fair tax system, and we need to make investments in our health care system, and we need revenue to do that.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Minister, again, this is my time, not yours.

Are you saying that Health Canada did not do any impact analysis on doctors who would flee because of these tax changes, yes or no?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I just said that I don't believe at all that there is any evidence—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I didn't ask what you believe. I asked if there was—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Again, you're criticizing me for talking over you—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

—economic analysis.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—but you're the only one talking over somebody, with all due respect.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

There is a point of order from Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Mr. Chair, interruptions are incredibly difficult for our interpreters, too. We all want to listen, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead, and provide a brief answer, please.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Well, the brief answer is that you've concocted a narrative, and you're looking for evidence that doesn't exist for the narrative. If you want to know what menaces our health system, it's cutting dental care, cutting pharmacare, cutting health care.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

That's what's going to menace our health care system.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Effectively, Canadians get to hear that there was no analysis. This is all based on your beliefs, your hopes and wishes, and unicorns. It's not actually based on any economic analysis, or if there is economic analysis, you won't share that with us. You continue repeating all of the same talking points, yet you will not provide any analysis, so how can we trust you?