Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #131 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mental.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #131 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mental.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I will also take this moment to thank you, Mr. Charles and Ms. MacDonald, for your courage in sharing your story with us and continuing to advocate for your daughter even though she's no longer with us. I think her siblings are probably very proud of the two of you and the courage it takes to do that.
Ms. MacDonald, you mentioned a bit about the genesis of her journey in this. What else do you think the federal government could have done to support the province in preventing her starting on this journey before we got to her use of drugs?
As an Individual
I think there needed to be more mental health support in place for her. She did talk to people and stuff, but I felt like she was very overlooked by a lot of them and they weren't actually listening to her in the bigger picture. They were just listening to what was in front of them, and not the whole story.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Do you feel that if there had been earlier prevention in her mental health journey, the pathway for her could have been completely different?
As an Individual
I think it would have been completely different. I don't think she would have been drowning out those noises she had in her head. She wouldn't have been so sad inside and felt so heartbroken and so distraught that she wanted to take her own life.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Do you think there should be more supports in schools—everywhere—for children like Brianna, especially if there is some major shift in their lives like a parental separation? Do you think these are things we could implement in our education system from the provincial level?
As an Individual
I think they could be implicated a bit more. I know there are some people, like counsellors and such, in the schools, but I think there could be more.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Do you think addressing some of the stigmas around families who are going through some shifts could also help the children better navigate their mental well-being while they're witnessing that?
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
I want to thank you both for being so courageous in answering our questions.
I'm going to shift my questions to Ms. Larney.
You talked about a paper you published regarding some of the provinces, like Quebec, that have been sheltered from the overdose epidemic. Could you talk about the factors that led to this, and why it's no longer the case?
Associate Professor, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
Certainly.
We see the increase in fentanyl and other substances entering the drug supply in Quebec. It actually began slightly before the COVID-19 pandemic, but then the pandemic created the conditions that caused chaos in the drug market, essentially. When you have that level of disruption and new players and new substances entering the market, this is when we start to see significant increases in deaths.
That's the acute cause of what happens. We have this change in the drug market away from the reliable supply that had existed beforehand, to a much more unpredictable supply, which is much more similar to what you're seeing in other provinces.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
I come from a community in London where we have been grappling with this opioid crisis since way before the pandemic. I think it has increased, but there were times when we could look to harm reduction from these toxic drugs as proof that it saves lives. We have numbers to prove that.
What do you say to people who still need more data and information to prove that harm reduction does save lives?
Associate Professor, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
There is an enormous amount of evidence that harm reduction is an essential part of the response.
If I can come at this from a slightly different angle, one thing that would be helpful is to consider that we don't have to have either harm reduction or other health interventions. This is about providing wraparound care that meets people where they are. That includes harm reduction when that is what people need to keep them alive, right through to various treatment options, mental health care and supportive housing. It's the whole range of services that people really need.
I think positioning harm reduction and other interventions as opposites, not actually working together, is a false dichotomy.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
For clarity for me and other people who may not have this answer, what is the age restriction for safe consumption sites? Is it the same policy across the country, or does it differ from province to province?
Associate Professor, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
I believe it differs from province to province. I do not have the exact numbers on hand, so I would not like to speculate.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
I'm sorry, Chair. I just want to ask if she could submit that information to the committee once she has it, so that we can have it.
Associate Professor, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
Certainly. I'd be happy to.
Liberal
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Professor Larney, with regard to the social determinants of illness, if I say that the pandemic amplified the flaws and fragility of the health care networks and that this phenomenon was linked to chronic underfunding dating back several decades, does that make sense to you?
I bring this up because you say in your conclusions that we're going to have to intervene in terms of social policies and the social determinants of health. However, we can't restore such a situation overnight.
Because organized crime is opportunistic, it has totally adapted to the pandemic situation. Now we're suffering the consequences of what we failed to do properly, particularly in the area of mental health. This problem, in fact, dated back several decades before the pandemic.
Does what I'm saying make sense, in your opinion?
Associate Professor, Université de Montréal, As an Individual
Yes. Completely. In terms of the strained mental health system and the broader physical health system and of people with chronic pain, such as people in the construction industry, I think all of the witnesses are saying there is a need for greater resourcing of health care and mental health care that can be implemented before people are in a situation where we're needing to prescribe safer supply. Absolutely.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
I have led an unprecedented battle to ensure that the provinces and Quebec receive an increase in health transfers commensurate with the challenges they face. I have already said, in a speech in the House, that I thought it was criminal to give an increase of only $46 billion in new money over 10 years.
Do you share my point of view?
