Evidence of meeting #131 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mental.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Mr. Charles, and thank you, Dr. Ellis.
The last round of questions for this panel will be for Dr. Powlowski, please.
October 8th, 2024 / 12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Continuing with my earlier line of questioning, you brought Brianna to the emergency room more than 20 times. Out of all those times, they only kept her twice.
Now, as I said, the emergency room doctor has the power to keep someone who has a mental illness and presents a threat to themselves or is unable to look after themselves. They have the power to keep them involuntarily in the hospital for up to at least 72 hours. I would say that they also have the obligation to do that.
The obligation is twofold. When people tell me, “What about my rights?”, well, the obligation of the doctor and society to intervene with those people is, one, to protect people from themselves. With time, people will often get better. They may be going through a bad time, as Brianna was. Often, with a chance and with time, they'll get better. You intervene to protect them from themselves.
The other reason you intervene is to protect the families, those like yours, who suffer the long-term consequences.
I would say that the medical profession, the emergency room doctors, had an obligation to act and to keep her had they thought she was actively suicidal. Why did they not keep her?
As an Individual
I believe they didn't keep her just because she was that manipulative of a person. She could literally look at you, tell you that she was fine, and you would believe her. She was very talented in that department. The manipulation was actually so strong that she could tell anybody anything and they would believe her.
Even when we warned the doctors in the emergency room that her manipulative skills were absolutely amazing, I don't think they believed us. Honestly, that's what it was. I don't think they actually believed what we were telling them. They thought we were just trying to drop a problem onto their lap. Honestly, I don't think their response was a proper one. Yes, they were obligated to keep her.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Yes. I would suggest, perhaps, that you were not very happy with the quality of care you received from the doctors. You warned them that she was manipulative. Clearly, she'd had repeated attempts that put her life at risk. Frankly, I would suggest that the care you got in the emergency rooms was not good.
Did you either complain to the college of physicians and surgeons or the hospitals or consider legal suits as a result of her treatment?
As an Individual
We've been in discussion about legal pursuits. There's been a discussion on how to approach the situation, especially against doctors, especially at CAPSU—Surrey Memorial and especially when Brianna sat there putting a pencil through her hand and the doctors told us she was fine to come home—the psychiatrists, you know. Sarah advocated so deeply to keep her there. She basically cried. The doctor literally looked at her and told her, “No, we're not keeping her.”
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
In society and with the legal system, I think that there's this kind of balance between recognizing individual autonomy and individual rights and the role, if any, of society, of other people and of families to intervene. Within the health care system and the judicial system, do you think we have that balance right, or do you think we've given too much power and autonomy to people with mental health problems and are unwilling to intervene where we ought to be willing to intervene to protect those people?
As an Individual
I honestly think we have given too much power to the individuals who are mentally ill. I believe we need to start drawing that back to be able to speak out and be an advocate.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Sarah, you looked like you wanted to say something.
No.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Dr. Powlowski.
I offer a heartfelt thank you all of our witnesses for being with us here today.
Colleagues, before we move to adjourn, there's one housekeeping item I'd like to dispense with. In connection with the brain injury study, can we set a deadline for the submission of briefs? I would suggest October 16. Are we okay with that? I see heads nodding around the table.
Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?