Health Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[Peter Maddox]

I don't think this bill is a solution, but it's certainly a good step back. Let's reset. You can see here that we have four associations. There are many other associations, like traditional Chinese medicine and others. It's an incredibly passionate industry. You've probably all received postcards from people in this industry.

We want to consult. We want to be involved. In my time working with these people, we're probably the most open industry in terms of sharing solutions and working towards best practice, so let's take that step back, and then we can work out what's next.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Auger or Mr. Guénette, go ahead.

[Michelle Auger]

I think from our members' perspective, this bill is so important. It's not a solution, because what existed before was not perfect either. It certainly has some issues to it, and those have been raised by our members before. However, taking a step back and really assessing the bigger picture, taking a look at cost recovery and the impacts that will have on small businesses, is certainly an important step too.

I will add that we do represent traditional Chinese medicine as a group of ours, and it has provided us with some significant numbers in terms of how all of these changes are going to impact its imports of products. Something as simple as a ginseng bottle may cost a consumer a significant amount of money going forward in Canada.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Harrington.

[Gerry Harrington]

I'll cede the question to Ms. Kramchynsky.

[Roberta Kramchynsky, Vice-President, Health Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Food, Health & Consumer Products of Canada]

Thank you.

When we're thinking about this bill—and I think from FHCP's perspective—we appreciate the attention that it's bringing to talking about the challenges in the NHP program, like labelling and cost recovery. These are all things my colleagues across the table have talked about today.

All of these actually predate Vanessa's Law, and I think Bill C-368 doesn't solve those problems. However, we really appreciate the opportunity to talk about these challenges facing our industry and to think through how we can work to solve those. As we said in our opening statement, this bill doesn't solve those problems, but by working together, we can find those solutions and bring that forward to be safe and to provide a common-sense approach for Canadians.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

I will go to Mr. Skelton.

[Aaron Skelton]

As a point of clarity, Vanessa's Law does not have recall powers. Vanessa's Law is the recategorization of NHPs to be the same as pharmaceuticals, and that's the concern.

If there are proper processes, discussions, deliberations and analysis, we're all open to that. I think everyone in this group would be open to it. It's the reclassification, which imparts the recall powers, that's the concern.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

I think this is part of a larger space we've been hearing about. I and many of my colleagues—I would assume most members of Parliament—have received thousands of individual, unique pieces of correspondence. I have talked to many people who brought this forward as a very serious concern because they want to have their choice in an industry that they trust and to be able to make an informed decision, and they have been robbed of that, or they feel like they're going to be.

Mr. Maddox, I'm going to give you the last word because you've raised so many concerns regarding the imports and the stuff coming across the border. Is there anything else you'd like to say on this? I think this is something for which we really need an economic impact assessment, and I don't know if the government actually did one, because I don't think it actually understood that this was a problem.

[Peter Maddox]

I was interested in the question about whether industry had done research on that. Industry could play a part in the government doing research on that, rather than it being on industry. We definitely want to play a role in that.

The fact is that I can go online and order an unregulated product from Mexico, Japan, the U.S. or wherever, and it may have the ingredients on it, but I don't know if what it says is in it is what's in it, whereas when I order a product from Canada or a product that's regulated in Canada, I know.

I think that's a really important step in how we have more oversight of that and how we understand the size of that issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Maddox.

Thank you, Mrs. Goodridge.

The last word goes to Mr. Naqvi for five minutes.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

First of all, thank you, again, to all of you for being here, spending this much time with us and giving us your thoughtful remarks.

Mr. Harrington, I want to talk to you a bit about your views on Vanessa's Law. What I'm hearing from you is that it's an important piece of legislation that is good for consumers in protecting Canadians, but also for industry. Am I correct?

[Gerry Harrington]

We see no harm in it. Absolutely.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Again, just to clearly understand your view about this particular bill we are discussing, do you feel that this bill, if passed in its current form, could be harmful to the industry and to Canadians?

[Gerry Harrington]

It doesn't solve the problems we're facing. Maybe I'll put it that way.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Can you elaborate? I think I'm hearing from you that the operating side of things, at Health Canada, is a bigger concern for you.

[Gerry Harrington]

Yes. Making natural health products therapeutic products does not necessarily make them pharmaceuticals. In fact, the therapeutic products regime goes from pharmaceuticals and vaccines to medical devices. It is a broad category.

The real issues we're facing are regulatory. It has been identified from the time Vanessa's Law became law that we need to treat consumer health products differently from prescription drugs. The fact that we're spending this much time talking about labelling is one of the most obvious reasons for that, because you label a consumer product in such a way that consumers can use that product without any professional supervision.

Those kinds of issues that have developed over time—the cost recovery problem and the post-approval inspection issue, which is very real—are all things that emerged prior to the application of Vanessa's Law, and they'll still be here if Bill C-368 passes.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

The set of issues you're raising will not be solved by this particular bill. We need to have a more thoughtful, serious conversation on other issues as opposed to somehow giving the impression that this bill deals with the issues around labelling or cost recovery, etc. Is that correct?

[Gerry Harrington]

Absolutely.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

This is a very focused bill that deals with recalls. Again, just to reaffirm what I'm hearing clearly, this could hurt industry and Canadians if it's passed into law.

[Gerry Harrington]

Put it this way: We didn't need Vanessa's Law in order to have confidence in these products, but having now applied it, pulling it off is not a good look. It's not a good look for our industry. It's not a good look for our reputation as a sector. It takes us out of the modernization process that's been going on for some time in the Food and Drugs Act, with new tools that are actually going to be very useful in solving the problems we have.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I look forward to working with you on other important issues you've raised.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Naqvi.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being with us today, and thanks for hanging in there for the late start. We appreciate your being with us. We appreciate the service you provide to your members and the level of preparation that you very clearly put into your testimony here today.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We're adjourned. Thank you.