Health Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

It's interesting, Ms. Gorham, that you mentioned six major changes to regulations in the industry, which realistically are related to the change in definition around a therapeutic product and how natural health products fit in there. That is directly addressed by Bill C-368.

We focused very much on Vanessa's Law and those kinds of things, but all of the other changes, because of the change in definition, would follow suit, which are the six major changes that you have outlined. Could you please tell us, for the benefit of those listening at home, what those six major changes are?

[Jules Gorham]

As Mr. Harrington has referred to, the labelling changes were passed into law in 2022. Those are to start being enforced early next year. Those labelling changes will essentially make NHPs a lot more similar to over-the-counter medication packaging—essentially drug packaging.

We have a cost recovery proposal that is now in its second consultation, which has closed down. This must be one of the consultations being counted, which was on cost recovery. Regardless of anything, that is set to go into the Gazette, part II in spring 2025, and the industry will be faced with cost recovery fees as of December 1, 2025.

We have these two omnibus bills, Bill C-47 and Bill C-69. We also have new good manufacturing practice guidance and quality guidance that is coming out. The one that was written before was written in conjunction with the department and industry, and the new one seems to be very similar to what is out for pharmaceuticals.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks very much.

Really, this characterization that Bill C-368 will only change Vanessa's Law is actually not true. Is that correct?

[Jules Gorham]

When we want to narrow it down and say that it's only about recall powers, it's simplifying it. What we did was redefine natural health products as therapeutic drugs within the act. The act is the highest level, and everything flows from that.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Realistically, what we understand is to be followed is labelling changes, which Mr. Harrington has already quite eloquently said are actually impossible for the industry to follow, and the significant cost recovery program, which, again, as we all understand—or at least I think those of us over here understand—has the potential to drive 20% of businesses totally out of business in Canada.

Is that true?

[Jules Gorham]

Yes, that's exactly true. No one is going to leave Canada simply because of recall powers. It's the sum total of everything that's happening.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Very good.

Of course, we know very clearly, as has been elucidated here, that over 80% of Canadians use natural health products, and the result of many companies going out of business or having their business driven elsewhere will be, in simple terms, that people will access these products in other places, most likely online.

Is that true?

[Jules Gorham]

We did a recent Leger report, which we're happy to table with the committee if you would like to see it, just to get an understanding of that. What we saw is that Canadian consumers really do value Canadian-made products. I think all Canadians try to buy local as much as possible. There's a great reputation. The industry is safe and compliant. These are low-risk products. However, the driving decision-makers are accessibility and price. The way we are going, our prices will be higher when competing with the online world over the border.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

The other thing that's incredibly important, besides all the things that you have talked about, including consumer choice, etc., is related to how these products are treated by the government. Part of what we heard on Tuesday was related to a study commissioned, I think, by CHFA with a very reputable company, Deloitte. Of course, the minister, using his usual bombast and provocative nature, even called that study into question—this is a company that the NDP-Liberal government actually uses for consultations themselves—once again mis-characterizing the industry as a whole.

How does that make you feel as a representative of that industry?

[Jules Gorham]

I'm very saddened, if I'm to be honest with you, and very disappointed. I think this industry has gone above and beyond to offer Canadians safe, reliable products. What maybe a lot of people don't understand is that the regulations that are already in place are what guarantees safety, efficacy and quality. That is the pre-market approval system that Canada has. To hear that being torn apart and to have this industry shamed and stained made us sad, because we've all spent our careers in this industry, and we're very proud of it.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

You should be.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Next up is Ms. Sidhu.

Please go ahead for five minutes.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all the witnesses.

My question is for FHCP.

Mr. Harrington, are you aware of any clause in Vanessa's Law that would increase costs for businesses?

[Gerry Harrington]

No, there would not be for a business complying with the law.

Regarding the previous question, if it was in regard to Vanessa's Law.... Most of the things we've been talking about are about labelling issues.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We have a point of order from Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Chair, it looks like our colleague, Mr. Powlowski, is lost once again. I'm wondering if his staff can go and try to find him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We'll send them a message. Thanks for your concern, Mr. Doherty.

We'll go back to Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I will ask—

[Gerry Harrington]

I'm sorry. To complete that answer, things like the very expensive labelling project have nothing to do with Vanessa's Law.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

So there are no sections in Vanessa's Law that would lead to increased costs for businesses. That's what I wanted you to clarify. Thank you.

We know that most natural health product producers try to comply with health regulations, because you already told us that it's about the companies' reputation. Certainly, some businesses do not. This bill will take us back where the maximum consequence for NHP producers that do not comply with the safety regulations is a $5,000 fine from the courts.

Do you think it would be fair to producers if some companies could ignore safety regulations and only get a $5,000 slap on the wrist? What do you think about that?

[Gerry Harrington]

The ability to affect decision-makers and to enforce the will on a regulated party is a critical part of any regulatory regime. Again, a compliant company has nothing to fear from higher fines or recall powers.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I asked the minister, because the minister's duty is the safety of Canadians. If there's some contamination, the minister has to explain that to Canadians. Not every business is doing that, as I said. Some companies do that.

Health Canada has the ability to call that out. If this bill was passed, NHPs would go back to being the only health products that Health Canada could not recall. It could recall the milk contaminated with listeria, but not the NHP contaminated with E. coli.

What is your view about that?

[Gerry Harrington]

There's a reputational risk there to the industry.

Quite honestly, in addition to considerations around Vanessa's Law, the real issue there is Health Canada getting out and inspecting.

As I said in my presentation, the debates around Vanessa's Law are.... Again, we appreciate the interest, but the real challenges we have right now are operational within Health Canada and the current regulatory regime. That includes, as the AG identified, the need to be doing more post-market inspections. In order to be able to do that, there is a need to put a lighter touch on the front end, bringing products onto the market.

For me, Vanessa's Law is a bit of a non-issue here, quite honestly, but the urgency around those regulatory challenges is not. It is why companies are not introducing new products in Canada to the degree they might be, and it is why some players are staying out of the country.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you.

I have one minute. Is there anything else, Mr. Maddox, that you would want to say about Vanessa's Law?