Health Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[Peter Maddox]

To Gerry's point, we're looking at a case of death by a thousand cuts. It's not Vanessa's Law. It's Vanessa's Law layered on top of other things, and on top of other things.

I'll give you a quick example. We have a company based in the U.S. It's a multinational company in six countries. About 80% of the products it sells are natural health products. It has a product regulatory team of 15 people in the U.S., and half of those people deal with Canada. Out of the six countries, half of its regulatory staff only deal with Canada. That's how much of a headache it is. They're actually saying that they're thinking about leaving Canada.

That might not seem important to a multinational, but it provides revenue to many independent sales consultants, so it's very important to those people in your riding who sell that product. It's not just about Vanessa's Law; it's about all the other things that are hurting the natural health product industry.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I'm not seeing that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I'm sorry, Ms. Sidhu. That's your time.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm looking for solutions. Ms. Gorham, you may have something to add.

I would like to quickly address the issue of regulatory changes related to labelling. You talked about that. Yesterday, I asked the minister if he would agree to use the QR code for labelling natural health products. At a previous meeting when he appeared before the committee, he told me that he agreed with the idea of a QR code for labelling cannabis products.

When it comes to changing labelling, do you think a hybrid solution, which would also use the QR code, would solve part of the industry's problem, which has to respond to new requests for safe labelling?

[Gerry Harrington]

Yes, I fully agree. Frankly, we have no other option than to introduce digital measures to resolve the labelling issue. That's one of the potential benefits of Vanessa's Law.

It gives us the tools to fix the regulation without disrupting the current availability of products, by having the ability to pull products out of that regime and fix the regulations so that we can use QR codes and other digital tools to enhance the labelling and then bring them back in. That is a new authority that was just made available through Bill C-69, and it's a solution we're pursuing very hotly right now.

Those kinds of modern tools, when we have change at the rate we do in our environment, are essential. The current labelling rules were developed in the United States in 1989, pre-Internet, in a country with one language. Those rules absolutely don't work in Canada. We need to be able to use things like QR codes to communicate with Canadians.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

So you agree that labelling rules regarding the safety of products should be tightened. You would agree that more of the label should be used to warn consumers about adverse reactions. However, if consumers wanted to know the entire composition of the product, such as the percentage of magnesium, they could use the QR code.

Did I understand your position correctly?

[Gerry Harrington]

That's correct.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Do you have anything to add, Ms.—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault. Your time is up.

Mr. Julian, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gorham, I'll allow you to answer Mr. Thériault's question.

[Jules Gorham]

Thank you very much, Mr. Julian.

I fully agree with Mr. Harrington. I think the QR codes would also help address the issue that the Auditor General raised, which was that some of the labels that were looked at weren't compliant. In addition, the QR code would make it easy to verify the health information on the product.

So, yes, we would completely agree with that measure. It would go a long way toward solving the labelling problems we're currently seeing.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You talked about products that weren't regulated. A few minutes ago, I asked if the industry or your association had a rough idea of the place unregulated products currently occupy in the natural health products market. If I understand correctly, you don't have a percentage estimate or figures to give us on that.

[Jules Gorham]

No, but I can tell you that it has an impact every day. Mr. Skelton could certainly tell you more about it than I can, but I think our association receives a call every week from one of its members who is thinking of going to the United States, precisely so as not to have to deal with the conditions we're currently subject to.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Yes, I understand, but the question was very specific. Have you done any studies on this or do you have any anecdotes to share with us?

[Jules Gorham]

Before the changes made by Vanessa's Law, we conducted a study that focused solely on labelling changes. At that time, in 2022, one in five Canadian companies said they were going to leave Canada simply because of labelling rules.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

One in five companies was going to leave Canada, but—

[Jules Gorham]

Also, I think 70% of businesses said they were going to have to cut jobs.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I understand, but that doesn't really answer my question. My question is really related to unregulated natural health products that come from outside the country. I'd like to know what percentage of the market these products occupy and what type of products they are. Mr. Maddox said that it was increasing, but, at the moment, you don't have any data.

[Jules Gorham]

We can't really know, because any company—

[Aaron Skelton]

Mr. Chair, if I could interject.... I'm sorry.

The question is a good one. We are engaging to try to find out specifics around that. Anecdotally, though, I can tell you that I get multiple emails from multiple members every single week with pictures of boxes in condos and in mail rooms that are from U.S. businesses. We have undergone our own investigation and have ordered some of those products, and we can procure products that are not regulated, that would not be allowed to enter Canada but that are free-flowing over the border.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Skelton.

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Next, we have Mrs. Goodridge.

Please go ahead for five minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate this opportunity to ask questions once again.

It is frustrating to me that the government is now saying that this is basically, and I'll quote the minister, “a cuckoo bananas bill”, to go back to a regime that was the regime that the Liberal government did not spend any time, actually, quickly fixing. It only decided to put this into an omnibus bill and hide it after being in power for eight years. After eight years, it didn't do this as a stand-alone bill. After eight years, it decided to put this, hidden, in a very large bill, hoping that Canadians wouldn't see this. Yet, now, it's trying to say that this is the most important piece to protect consumers and trying to scare consumers about the entire industry by talking about an absolute one-off case.

Ms. Gorham, I'll start with you, and we'll move down. Do you believe that this common-sense bill from my colleague Blaine Calkins is a better solution than what currently exists in our legislation?

[Jules Gorham]

I think this bill is important because it has given us the opportunity to come talk about it, which we were not granted before Bill C-47. For that, I'll say thank you, Chair and all members. It's the first time we will all have our say.

However, I think the bill is also important because putting natural health products under the definition of therapeutic drugs is not what's good for industry. It's not what's good for Canadians. If there are gaps, those can be addressed and discussed.

[Aaron Skelton]

If I could add—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Just let me.... I'm sorry.

Mr. Maddox.