Health Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[Michelle Auger]

I also want to add that from our members' perspective, even when these clauses and provisions were included in the bills, there was very little information and detail as to what that entailed. Our members who are impacted by these changes were totally caught off guard, because they didn't really know the repercussions. The same thing just occurred with Bill C-69. There are some impacts there impacting natural health products, but when we actually reached out to Health Canada and asked them what this means for small businesses, we got nothing from them.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have one last question, because I know my time is short.

Just to be clear, this impacts Canadian businesses only. Canadians will still be able to receive over-the-counter, direct-to-consumer products online through Amazon from foreign countries. Foreign products are not being met with the same regulations.

Go ahead.

[Michelle Auger]

In our consultation, we do highlight that. It creates an unfair playing field for businesses that are operating in Canada, and even trying to compete here. People are just going to go to Amazon and import them under the radar.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Canadian businesses go down.

[Michelle Auger]

Exactly. That's all included in the consultation we've already submitted. Businesses are already feeling that with the competition of Amazon in other sectors.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Next, we have Mr. Naqvi, please, for six minutes.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

It's interesting that Mr. Doherty started on the question of consultation. Upon his request in the last meeting, Health Canada has submitted to this committee an extensive document that demonstrates meetings, conversations and consultations that have taken place on natural health products alone, going as far back as 2016.

Let me ask some of our friends. Maybe I'll start Ms. Gorham.

Has your organization been meeting with Health Canada on issues dealing with natural health products over the last few years?

[Jules Gorham]

It is within Health Canada's mandate to consult with stakeholders.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So, you haven't consulted over the last few years.

[Jules Gorham]

Regular consultations do happen. Consultation on Bill C-47 did not happen.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Harrington.

[Gerry Harrington]

Consultations with Health Canada are a weekly occurrence for our organization.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So, consultations do happen, and you've been meeting with them over a period of time. In those consultations, have there been conversations around possible application of Vanessa's Law?

Ms. Gorham.

[Jules Gorham]

If I just go back to Tuesday, the minister said that since 2014, there have been 4,500 consultations. That would equal almost 1.5 consultations a day. There have not been 1.5 consultations a day.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I have limited time. My question was this: In conversations and consultations with Health Canada, have they discussed the application of Vanessa's Law to natural health products?

[Jules Gorham]

As far as I'm aware, the last conversations would have been on what Mr. Harrington spoke to, the self-care framework. That would have been in 2019. That was not on Bill C-47.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Harrington.

[Gerry Harrington]

We did have outreach from some senior officials at Health Canada about potentially including NHPs in Vanessa's Law on a couple of occasions, but those were bilateral conversations. At the time, we expressed our concern, much the way I would have.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So the conversations have taken place.

Ms. Gorham, when the BIA was tabled, preceding that, there were at least four meetings with CHFA on Vanessa's Law with Health Canada, according to the documents that have been submitted.

[Jules Gorham]

When Bill C-47 reached the Senate, our president and CEO, Aaron Skelton, asked if he could testify, because we were not consulted. Aaron testified at the Senate that we did not have meetings with the department.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

You did not have at least four meetings with the department after the tabling of the BIA.

[Jules Gorham]

We had a meeting with the DG at the time. She's no longer there. She told us that she did not know that it would be in the budget, Mr. Naqvi. We weren't consulted on Bill C-47.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I am hearing that consultations have taken place and that there have been ongoing conversations around Vanessa's Law. I find it not parliamentary at all for Mr. Doherty to suggest that the minister and the non-partisan senior officials of Health Canada were lying—those are his words in one of his social media posts.

However, I'm mindful of my time and want to move forward.

Ms. Gorham, I want to ask you some really important questions. Do you think the government should be able to mandate a recall, yes or no?

[Jules Gorham]

I think if the government has gaps, they should go through the proper consultation to fix those gaps.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

My question is this: Should the government have the power to mandate a recall of a product, yes or no?