Evidence of meeting #137 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Should safe supply drugs have markers for traceability?
Superintendent (Retired), As an Individual
I think that would be very useful for police and government agencies when tracing them if they're diverted from their intended use.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
You are here essentially bringing the voices of thousands of men and women who serve our communities all across our nation. Can you speak to whether officers on the ground have had reservations about decriminalization and safe supply? The message we are getting from our frontline officers is that there was significant concern with that, yet we still went down that path.
Superintendent (Retired), As an Individual
From my experience in my community, it's an accurate depiction that the front line was not particularly supportive. However, they're not always supportive of policies implemented from management.
I would say that it's a fair characterization that frontline officers were not particularly supportive.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Is safe supply being diverted and trafficked by organized crime?
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Do northern and rural communities like Prince George have the resources to curb the flow of fentanyl and other deadly illegal drugs coming into our communities?
Superintendent (Retired), As an Individual
It's very problematic, and the example I'll provide is the community of Prince George. It's a municipality of approximately 75,000 to 80,000 people. The vast majority of resources we have are municipally funded, and they provide enough policing service to maintain law and order and conduct criminal investigations, but doing large, proactive drug-trafficking investigations is extremely problematic for communities of that size in a remote area.
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
What are the flaws in how safe supply has been implemented?
Superintendent (Retired), As an Individual
It's my observation that the biggest flaw with the program is that individuals are provided up to several dozen pills and are allowed to proceed out the door with them. There is no mechanism to determine or ensure that they are used appropriately by that individual and not diverted elsewhere.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Superintendent Wright.
Mrs. Brière, you have the floor for six minutes.
November 5th, 2024 / 11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Élisabeth Brière Liberal Sherbrooke, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all our witnesses for joining us today.
Dr. Boudreault, you mentioned that laws, policies and protocols should seek to help, not punish. You also say that we need to adopt an approach that offers diverse and adapted services to better respond to the reality on the ground.
As you said, your teams see what's happening on the streets in Montreal on a daily basis.
What do you think of the comments you just heard in response to the first questions that were asked?
Nurse and National Operations and Strategic Development Director, Doctors of the World Canada
Thank you very much for the question.
First of all, I have to make a correction. I'm not a doctor either, I'm a nurse.
It's been said that repressive policies, such as forcibly taking a person to a supervised consumption site or giving them medication like naloxone, encourage people to use.
That's already going too far. People use for a variety of reasons. They need to be in contact with people, to have access to information, to not be further stigmatized, because they already have to hide in order to be able to consume. I talked about consumption—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Excuse me, Ms. Boudreault.
There is no interpretation at the moment. So we're going to take a break to resolve the situation, and then we'll continue.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
I call the meeting back to order.
Thank you to our technical team for resolving those problems.
Ms. Boudreault, do you remember the question that was asked, or would you like to hear it again?
Nurse and National Operations and Strategic Development Director, Doctors of the World Canada
I think I was asked what I thought of the comments made earlier about the ongoing repression.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Okay.
Your answer was not interpreted. I would ask you to start from the beginning.
Nurse and National Operations and Strategic Development Director, Doctors of the World Canada
The Doctors of the World teams in Montreal work close to people on the ground. There are a number of organizations in Montreal that welcome these individuals, such as supervised consumption sites and day centres. There are also people who all these organizations can't help at all, because they live on the fringes, on the street, and because they're homeless.
As I was saying earlier, every person we see has their own story and their own needs. We focus a lot on stopping drug and alcohol use, and we forget to look at the reasons why people use drugs. So we need to put in place a whole social fabric, interventions, training, awareness and safe spaces where individuals feel free to go and meet with people who will be with them, instead of being forced to hide and be further stigmatized, which puts them at even greater risk.
We focus on reducing risks and harms, not on repression, to adapt our response to each person's reality.
Liberal
Élisabeth Brière Liberal Sherbrooke, QC
Thank you very much.
Would you say, then, that the harm reduction efforts being made make it easier to build those trusting relationships and sometimes help people stop using?
Nurse and National Operations and Strategic Development Director, Doctors of the World Canada
Yes, that's exactly it. You have to reach out to people if you want to help them.
Of course, overdoses do occur in Quebec and Canada almost every day, and Montreal is no exception. There were two overdose deaths this past weekend. These are individuals who are known in the community, who are still in hiding and whom we need to get in touch with. They come from certain communities or minorities, and they still feel very stigmatized. It's harder to get in touch with them, and we're not going to get there with a model of repression and involuntary cessation of use. It's more about reaching out to them and building all those trust relationships.
We work a lot with peers who have experiential knowledge. They have had problems with their own use and have weaned themselves off drugs, or they are able to manage their use.
So it's possible.
Liberal
Élisabeth Brière Liberal Sherbrooke, QC
Thank you very much.
Law enforcement said the following to this committee:
However, we strongly support the notion of not trying to arrest ourselves out of this crisis. That is not going to save lives. In fact, it does quite a bit of harm if it's somebody with a significant addiction that they need medical help with or somebody who needs support. The last thing they need is to be introduced into the criminal justice system.
Do you agree with that statement?
Superintendent (Retired), As an Individual
There's definitely some merit to the statement that we can't arrest ourselves out of this problem. I wouldn't suggest this is an appropriate course of action. What I do believe, though, is that police and the legal system have a role to play with regard to some of the behaviours within communities that are acceptable. However, absolutely drug addiction will be defeated eventually through intervention on the medical side.
Liberal
Élisabeth Brière Liberal Sherbrooke, QC
You've heard the testimony of Madame Aalhus and Madame Boudreault. What is your opinion on their testimony?
Superintendent (Retired), As an Individual
We three individuals probably have some differing viewpoints. However, as I said in my opening remarks, I went through all of my career in policing believing in the four-pillar model, which includes enforcement, prevention, harm reduction and treatment. I really think that all four of those components need to be there for a system to be successful.
Liberal
Élisabeth Brière Liberal Sherbrooke, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Aalhus, if it's okay, I'll ask a question in French.
In your presentation, you talked about the value of having a continuum of care to help people maintain a certain level of dignity, to ensure a presence with them and to treat them with respect. You said that you had the tools and knowledge to help these individuals, but that you needed a commitment.
What do you think that commitment should be to give you a leg up so you can continue to do the work you're doing and save lives?