Health Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Johns. That's your time.

Mrs. Goodridge, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here.

Just to follow up on some of the questions that have come so far, back in April or March 2024, Prince George came out saying that you guys had found safe supply pills in your region. I'm wondering how you can confidently say that the drugs seized in Prince George were in fact government, taxpayer-funded safe supply drugs.

[Shaun Wright]

With regard to the initial media release, that was our belief because they were similar to and believed to be from safe supply or prescribed supply. However, we conducted further investigations and made observations that determined that safer supply was indeed being diverted into the illicit market.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

It's not that you guys just went out and decided that they were these drugs because they looked like them. You actually did a series of investigations on this.

[Shaun Wright]

That's correct. We had received complaints of diversion prior to that as well.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I want to go back a bit. What did you see in the aftermath of British Columbia's disastrous move towards the legalization of hard drugs in your community of Prince George?

[Shaun Wright]

I would say the most significant impact was a noticeable increase in crimes of public disorder, particularly in the downtown core and in other areas of the city. They reduced the livability of the community for many people, who experienced an environment of increased public drug use. In particular, individuals, perhaps with their children, no longer wanted to shop at particular stores because there were persons openly smoking drugs on the sidewalk nearby.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I'm a mom of young kids, and I've had many moms reach out to me to share stories they have about children's playgrounds being littered with drug paraphernalia, people using drugs in public parks and playgrounds, and people disrupting their paths of travel.

How did the community of Prince George specifically react to the disastrous legalization project?

[Shaun Wright]

It's very similar. We've received quite a number of complaints. I received complaints, personally, on a daily basis from business leaders and members of the community with regard to those issues.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

At the same time that you saw this massive policy shift towards making it legal for people to possess and use up to 2.5 grams of fentanyl, crack, cocaine and a number of other drugs, did you see any increases in your community in treatment and recovery supports?

[Shaun Wright]

No, I did not.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

That seems like a bit of a struggle, if you're going to make a massive policy change, remove tools from law enforcement and then, in turn, not provide any supports on the other side.

Did this normalize drug use in the community?

[Shaun Wright]

I would say that's a fair characterization. Open drug use was certainly normalized. There were issues prior to that, but it made it commonplace.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

I'm going to move over very quickly to Mr. Rolfe.

I'm wondering how many lives have been saved in your housing program through the use of evidence-based opioid agonist therapy medications like methadone or Suboxone.

[Steven Rolfe]

It's a difficult number to track. It's more along the lines of who is using Suboxone. Really, it comes down to the availability of prescribers coming into the program and the availability of primary care.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Are you guys not able to track which people living in your facilities are using these opioid agonist therapies?

[Steven Rolfe]

Yes, we can. It would be possible to come up with the number of people on Suboxone.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

How important is it to have access to qualified, addiction-specializing prescribers so that people looking for those off-ramps can get that treatment?

[Steven Rolfe]

It's critical. As I said in my remarks, I think supportive housing is key in that it creates a place of stability where treatment can begin. People have an address, which means they can get linked to primary care and can get referrals to where they need to go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Rolfe and Mrs. Goodridge.

Dr. Hanley, go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I want to thank all of the witnesses for appearing today.

Thank you, Superintendent Wright, for your long years of service.

I'll give a special thanks to Ms. Aalhus, who made the effort to travel from the Yukon to be here.

It's so important that we draw upon experience, expertise and evidence for this study and try to leave our personal biases behind.

Superintendent Wright, you expressed an opinion about an emphasis on harm reduction to the exclusion of the other pillars, but facts from Health Canada about overall spending over the five years from 2017 to 2021 show that 58% of spending was on enforcement, 18% was on prevention, 13% was on treatment, 8% was on harm reduction and 3% was on research. It seems like we're spending an awful lot on enforcement. As important as that is, I'd love to see documentation on how successful we are in winning that war.

Ms. Aalhus, your fellow witness described harm reduction as something that facilitates drug use. Is that how you see it as a harm reduction expert?

[Jill Aalhus]

It is not. People have used substances in all cultures for millennia. We're not going to stop that through involuntary treatment or criminalization.

It's difficult to listen to lengthy debates about the less than 2% of overdoses attributed to pharmaceuticals, when many of us are on the front lines of this crisis. Really, what it comes down to is stigma. Criminalization creates stigma. It forces people to use in the shadows and to hide their use from family, friends and loved ones. I think that takes away from what we're trying to do as a community, which is end the toxic drug crisis.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Do you feel that individuals using substances are not able to make the right decisions for themselves, as suggested by your fellow witnesses?

[Jill Aalhus]

I completely disagree. I think it is a huge human rights violation to suggest that people who use substances are unable to consent and make their own decisions.

Every day I see people who use substances administering naloxone to each other, administering rescue breaths and saving each other's lives. Our supervised consumption site is often a very positive space of community support, where people are letting staff know if they see someone who needs support and assistance.

People who use drugs are on the front lines of this crisis. To suggest that they don't have the ability to participate in a solution or care for themselves and each other is disrespectful and removes their dignity.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you.

The First Nations Health Authority of B.C. submitted a brief, where they described the following in their text: “The politicization of the toxic drug crisis threatens progress, especially as the backlash against proven, evidence-based harm-reduction measures that save lives hits First Nations people the hardest, deepening existing inequities.”

You mentioned something similar in your opening remarks. What do you see as under threat here? Can you comment on this area?