Health Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[Jill Aalhus]

These are our loved ones across the country. There was a two-week period where we lost four young mothers in the Yukon. These are people who deserve dignity.

Cracking down on substance use and closing harm reduction centres contribute to stigma and shame and increase the likelihood of people using alone without support. They also increase the risk of fatal overdose.

There are many years of evidence backing up supervised consumption and harm reduction as life-saving approaches. The solution to the crisis is to bring these discussions into the open to provide support, to facilitate safe spaces for people and to reduce stigma.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

We have about 30 seconds left.

You mentioned how the lack of support from SUAP funding has affected your operations, particularly with regard to rural harm reduction. I'm going to give you some time to elaborate on that.

[Jill Aalhus]

I think sustainability is a huge challenge for harm reduction organizations, particularly now with the politicization. We were fortunate to receive short-term funding through SUAP, but right now we are struggling to recruit and retain staff to compete with other employers in the north. It's hard to afford that.

We're really patching things together with duct tape, trying to use limited funding to meet the communities' needs. We have many requests from communities for work that we're unable to support them with because we don't have funding. We have very limited funding for rural harm reduction.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Ms. Boudreault, in your experience, do you think it's impossible to establish an addict's decision-making capacity?

[Pénélope Boudreault]

It's absolutely not impossible.

The people who are using are adults. As other witnesses have said, you'd be surprised at the degree to which there is a spirit of co‑operation and solidarity on the street, even when it comes to overcoming all the realities these individuals have to deal with. This is especially the case for the homeless people we're trying to reach. They need to figure out how to find something to eat.

These individuals are able to make choices. The problem that arises is often related to the lack of choice or the lack of resources that would enable them to make choices tailored to their reality and needs.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

In your conclusion, you say that you advocate for a diverse strategy that promotes dignity, respect and support.

Could you elaborate on each of those terms?

[Pénélope Boudreault]

Our focus is on really being there for people. I'll say it again, there are reasons why people use. We want to talk about drugs, with a focus on stopping drug use.

People use for a number of reasons. However, some people don't have a social safety net, a family network or a guaranteed income. They might not have much schooling. Therefore, multiple approaches are needed to address these diverse needs. People sometimes need to feel heard and to be supported. They need access to services tailored to their reality, to organizations that can provide them with good support and advice.

This work is needed. There are multiple realities that have to be considered. We talked about repression and other similar approaches. I can tell you that we have established collaborative ties with various community stakeholders in Montreal, including police forces. Some police officers prefer to accompany people they encounter on the street to a supervised consumption site or a community organization. They know that people will receive services and that they will be listened to and supported.

Some people will feel comfortable going to supervised consumption sites. Others will prefer to go to detoxification centres. Some will decide to stop using.

So we have to take a number of realities into account and be able to offer a variety of services. We also need to structure our intervention services.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Boudreault.

Next we have Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go back to you, Retired Superintendent Wright. Do you believe substance use disorders should be treated as a health issue? Do you agree with public health leaders that there are significant harms associated with criminalizing people who use substances?

[Shaun Wright]

Yes, I agree that the health system is the appropriate way to address opioid disorder. However, for some of the ancillary issues that arise with regard to behaviour and public disorder, I think we need a mechanism and tools to deal with them.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

In term of your concerns about the decriminalization pilot in British Columbia, you obviously made it clear that you didn't believe appropriate supports were put in place in advance. What types of supports would you like to see? If you were to design a decriminalization model, what would it look like?

[Shaun Wright]

It would be very similar to the tenets of the four pillars. Education should have been rolled out strongly from the beginning, knowing that small children were going to see more of this in the street as a result. On harm reduction, in my opinion, plenty of resources should be added. With regard to enforcement, there should be additional enforcement with regard to fentanyl in particular. Most critical, I think, is recovery and treatment. Even if people are ready for it, it's not readily available on demand. I think that was a key missing component.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I was just going to go there, actually. In Canada right now, on average, provinces and territories spend about 5% of their health care budgets on mental health and treating substance use disorder. In the OECD it's around 12% to 14%. B.C. is at around 7%, building toward 9% with their new commitments.

In responding to the toxic drug crisis, we spent 1% of what we spent on COVID. Do you believe it's because of stigma? Do you believe Canada needs to create parity within the Canada Health Act for mental and physical health?

[Shaun Wright]

I would agree that steps definitely need to be taken to include further mental health supports. In my opening comments, I said that one of the most significant negative effects I saw on communities was the shift from organized mental health treatment to disaggregated mental health treatment in communities without adequate support.

Yes, I would agree.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Wright and Mr. Johns.

Next we have Mr. Moore, please, for five minutes.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Wright, as a retired RCMP superintendent with 28 years on the front line of policing, you've seen the impact of changes that have been made by federal governments over the years in your community. I found your testimony very instructive and persuasive. You've been on the front line so you see these changes in real time.

We also have the benefit of Statistics Canada, which tracks crime statistics, among other things. Over the last nine years, we know that violent crime is up 50% in Canada, homicides are up 28%, sexual assaults are up 75%, auto theft is up 46% and violent firearms offences are up 116%. Those are Statistics Canada numbers.

Some of this is as a direct result of changes that have been made with bail—for example, the catch-and-release bail in Bill C-75—where we see those who probably should be in custody after committing an offence out on the street reoffending. How have you seen catch-and-release impact the ability of police to disrupt the illicit drug trade in British Columbia?

[Shaun Wright]

I would say the most significant manner in which it impacts the illicit drug trade is that persons charged with violent offences are often now released on bail. My experience 10 or 20 years ago was that this wouldn't have been the case. While they're out on bail, they reoffend and continue to commit further violent crime. Much of our violent crime, at least in the community where I worked, was directly related to the illicit drug trade.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

I noticed that in your remarks you used the term “so-called” safe supply—which I've heard used before at this committee—because of the interplay between so-called safe supply and the illicit drug trade. We heard from a previous witness about individuals selling their safe supply in order to get harder drugs. That safe supply is getting into our schools and getting to students.

What's your experience with that? Is that accurate in terms of what's happening, in your experience?

[Shaun Wright]

It's my experience that a quantity of the prescribed supply is making its way into the community and into the illicit market. Unfortunately, as it comes packaged as a prescribed pharmaceutical, it gives the impression that it's safer than a street drug, but it's still an opioid. I think it could have—or does have—disastrous effects for some individuals, particularly those experimenting.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

You talked in an interview about the failed policy—I think we should all agree that it's been a failed policy—of drug decriminalization, which led to a proliferation of open drug trafficking in the downtown core, and much more than you had seen previously. What do you see as the long-term impact of an entire year where decriminalization was in effect and how it normalized the otherwise illicit drug trade?

[Shaun Wright]

Basically, open drug use, drug trafficking and incidents of disorder in the community still exist. It's very hard to put that genie back in the bottle because the mindset has shifted and it has become a norm among many people there. It's definitely an uphill battle to try to roll that clock back.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

Do I still have some time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You have one minute, Mr. Moore.

[Rob Moore, Conservative, Fundy Royal, NB]

You would know that just last week—and I'm sure some former colleagues of yours were there—we saw the RCMP in British Columbia dismantle the largest and most sophisticated superlab in Canada. The police seized 54 kilograms of fentanyl and 390 kilograms of meth from this lab, not to mention 89 guns, some of which were loaded and ready to use.

You'll know that the government's Bill C-5 allows for house arrest for those producing, importing and exporting schedule I drugs. Previously, if someone was convicted, that would have required a jail sentence. Now someone convicted could indeed serve their sentence from home.

What message do you think that sends to the community about those who are involved in this very harmful activity?