Health Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Well, you know, sometimes the truth hurts, Chair.

Listen, what we're talking about here—and I've said this many times—is about a $13-billion industry that has proven itself to be safe. Around the world, the regulations that Canada has with respect to natural health products are touted as the best in the world.

We need to be honest here. When somebody brings forward an amendment that is going to wreck an industry, that, to me, is fodder for pointing that out to Canadians who are out there listening. I know they're listening, because first of all, they told us they're listening, and second, as I mentioned previously, we received more correspondence on the original bill than on any other piece of legislation we have undertaken in the last three years. That's a telltale sign with respect to, first, how impressed Canadians are with respect to the industry and how safe they believe it to be, and, second, their desire to have the freedom of choice to say, “This is how I want to undertake my own health maintenance and my own health promotion. This is how I want to do it.”

Sadly, Chair—and I'll continue to speak through you if that makes Mr. Julian's feelings hurt any less—realistically, Canadians, because of the last nine years of this NDP-Liberal government, do not have access to health care. Over seven million Canadians do not have access to primary health care, and the system that we have—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Again, Mr. Chair, I have a point of order on the relevance of the filibuster.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please go ahead, Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I don't know why he's blocking a Conservative bill, but the relevance of what he is saying is completely unrelated to the discussion around the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

There is a wide latitude. When you start talking about access to health care right across the board, the link is tenuous, but it is there. This is health care. This is access.

Go ahead, Dr. Ellis.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Again, thank you very much, Chair.

I want to apologize for continuing to hit a nerve with Mr. Julian, but that is precisely what needs to be done when Canadians are suffering out there and do not have access. Seven million Canadians do not have access to primary health care, and over the last nine years, what has the NDP-Liberal government done about that? The answer is, “Absolutely nothing.” They have done absolutely nothing at all—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead, Mr. Julian, please.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I had a 16-hour filibuster to stop the Harper regime on the softwood lumber sellout.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I remember it well.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

You cannot repeat, and you must be relevant at all times. Dr. Ellis is repeating himself, and he's not relevant.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I'm not repeating myself.

[An hon. member]

It's novel every time.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

There's another point of order from Ms. Goodridge.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate that Mr. Julian doesn't like the content of what Dr. Ellis is sharing, but he is very relevant to the bill and the subject at hand and has not been repeating himself, contrary to what Mr. Julian would like us to believe. I believe he's explaining very clearly why so many Canadians actually do rely on natural health products: It's because of their lack of access to primary health care. That is part of the crux of the problem we're in. Perhaps this wouldn't have as significant a blow if every Canadian had access to primary health care, but we know that is not the case. That is not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I'm inclined to agree with Ms. Goodridge.

Go ahead, Dr. Ellis.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Before I was so rudely interrupted, I was saying that the interesting point here is that we have heard from Canadians on two major points with respect to primary health care, and most importantly, they say that they cannot access it. In a system of universal accessibility, they sadly cannot access the system. Therefore, they are required—because they must live—to look after their own health needs. What they have found is that by using natural health products, they are able to promote and to maintain their health, which they freely choose to do in a country based on freedom.

I think the other important point here is that once again Mr. Julian would have us believe that his wrecking motion does not have the intent to wreck this bill. We have clearly heard from the person who created the bill that it does, which creates a significant impasse at the current time.

I think it bears explaining why this is so incredibly important. That's especially in light of the fact that I would directly quote the Prime Minister saying back in 2021 that they were going to bring “7,500...doctors, nurses, and nurse practitioners” to practise here in this country. What we do know, which flies in the face of the misinformed Minister of Health, is that the access to primary care is getting worse.

We heard that testimony here at this committee from the Minister of Health when he was questioned on this very topic, relating to Bill C-368. We heard the minister say very specifically that “access to [primary care] is improving” across this country. It's not funny, but laughable. If you actually talk to the Canadians who have the ability to vote, they know this.

In our offices, we receive messages every single day from Canadians who say that they can't find a family doctor or that their daughter can't find a family doctor. In fact, I had an email today from a constituent who said that this is an appalling situation. It is not only the mother who does not have access to a primary care provider; her daughter, who just had a baby, also does not have a primary care provider, nor does the newborn baby.

As we begin to look at the dastardly situation created by the ineptitude and, unfortunately, the clueless attitude that has been demonstrated here over and over again by the Minister of Health, Canadians have had to turn to looking after themselves because they don't have the support of primary care physicians. I would say it's very likely that many of the claims, which again are unsubstantiated by ISMP, could have been simply mitigated if those individuals were able to speak to a primary care provider.

also I find it interesting, as we resume debate on the motion for that particular group of individuals to bring their data to this forum, this committee, that once again—and I can't understand why—Mr. Julian had to have his own way in defeating the motion. We could have had 20 more minutes to talk about this bill, but he had to have his own way to move a unanimous consent motion to bring forward the exact same motion that he voted against in the original context when it was brought forward at the last meeting. To me, that actually points towards his—

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Julian, go ahead on a point of order.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

The reality is that I voted against the filibuster that Dr. Ellis is now performing to block his own bill, or a bill of his Conservative colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That wasn't a point of order.

Go ahead, Dr. Ellis.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

I have a point of order.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I think it is really quite—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Does Ms. Goodridge have another point of order?