Evidence of meeting #141 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Hedican  As an Individual
Marc Vogel  Chief physician, Division of Substance Use Disorder, University of Basel Psychiatric Clinics, As an Individual
Kim Brière-Charest  Project Director on Psychoactive Substances, Association pour la santé publique du Québec
Marianne Dessureault  Attorney and Head of Legal Affairs, Association pour la santé publique du Québec
Thai Truong  Chief of Police, London Police Service
Jennifer Hedican  As an Individual

1 p.m.

As an Individual

John Hedican

And they die.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

How do we educate kids about drinking and drugs?

1 p.m.

As an Individual

John Hedican

+

As I said earlier, it has to start at a young age. It has to start in elementary school. It has to be on a regular basis. It has to be by, I believe, people like myself, people with lived experience. We put alcohol in shiny stores. We have commercials, and we glorify it. We've normalized it, but we have to acknowledge that it is the danger drug, 100%.

1:05 p.m.

As an Individual

Jennifer Hedican

There are more people with alcohol problems than there are with cancer according to the U.S. Surgeon General. One of the things I'll go back to is the question of what we need to do. We need to talk about realities.

In 2016, when Ryan was waiting to get into the Last Door, we needed to find him heroin until he could be able to detox. There were about 43 drug houses in our community that the police had said.... You don't see it, so you think it's not there. Because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. It is already there. It's in all of your neighbourhoods. It's not in just what you think of as a drug house. It goes all the way through society.

That's where my heart started. I didn't want any of my children to use substances, ever. That's not reality. Even the stigma of, “I saw a drug deal,” how about, “I saw somebody get what they need.” There's no stigma, move on. Rather than, “I saw two people holding hands who were the same sex,” move on. Educate yourselves.

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Ms. Hedican.

We're at the appointed hour. Mr. Johns has asked for one final question, so I'd like to extend that courtesy to Mr. Thériault and Mr. Johns, and then we'll seek a motion for adjournment.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for a question.

Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Brière‑Charest, can you tell us about the concept of a continuum of addiction services and why that's important?

1:05 p.m.

Project Director on Psychoactive Substances, Association pour la santé publique du Québec

Kim Brière-Charest

Yes, I'd be happy to.

In Quebec, the addiction services network is well established. I would even say that a consensus is emerging among all the people and organizations working on the front lines, as well as in terms of prevention, research and treatment. The general idea is to focus on making a range of resources available.

I want to build on the comments about harm reduction services and give you a personal example. The last time I dealt with an overdose, the person was not addicted to opiates, but still needed three doses of naloxone. The individual was informed of the risks, but still needed our support, without which they would probably have died in the middle of the night in an alley.

Maintaining all these services for all these at-risk people is therefore essential. We also need to radically increase prevention measures alongside those interventions.

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Mr. Thériault and Ms. Brière‑Charest.

The last question goes to Mr. Johns, please.

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Mr. Vogel, the Hedicans spoke about their son losing his life when he relapsed after eight months of sobriety. We know that for people who have substance use disorder, it's a relapsing and recurring disorder.

In Switzerland, how do you ensure that people get drug replacement therapy and...what substances they get when they do relapse, when they decide they're going to use? I know you're not going to be able to answer about first-time users because you're an addictions doctor, but could you speak to that and maybe provide some advice to us on what we're dealing with in Canada and how to respond?

1:05 p.m.

Chief physician, Division of Substance Use Disorder, University of Basel Psychiatric Clinics, As an Individual

Dr. Marc Vogel

I didn't get the first part of the question because it was cut off, but if someone relapses or uses in general, we would try to react. We would try to offer treatment, first of all. We know that abstinence-based treatment is not working for 95% of the people, so opioid agonist therapy is the best we have right now, and we would offer that.

If people relapse on opioid agonist therapy, I would offer them an improvement in therapy. I would try to offer dose increases. I would try to offer a different substance or a different route of administration. If I notice that a patient relapsed, for example, on methadone or buprenorphine again and again, I will offer, for example, heroin-assisted treatment as a more intensive and better treatment offer than I had tried before. I will also see that what I have been offering right now is still failing the patient and that I have to improve, and together with the patient, we will find something that is acceptable and works.

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Dr. Vogel and Mr. Johns.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being with us today. The variety of lived experience and expertise has made for an exceptionally interesting meeting. That testimony will be extremely valuable to us in our report back to the House.

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

We're adjourned.