Health Committee on Nov. 28th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting 142 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health.

In accordance with our routine motion, I'm informing the committee that all remote participants have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

Pursuant to an order of reference adopted by the House of Commons on Wednesday, May 29, the committee is resuming its clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-368, an act to amend the Food and Drugs Act in relation to natural health products.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses, who are available as experts for any questions related to the legislation that members may have. From the Department of Health, we have David Lee, chief regulatory officer of the health products and food branch; and Kim Godard, director general of the health product compliance directorate.

I recognize Mr. Naqvi and then Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, I indicated half an hour before the meeting that I wanted to be first on the list.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

On a point of order, unless I'm incorrect, I believe Dr. Ellis had the floor when we suspended the meeting. Therefore, he should still have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We adjourned the meeting. We're starting anew.

Mr. Naqvi, go ahead.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Chair, I'd like to put forward a motion. I move:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 97.1, the committee request an extension of 30 sitting days to consider Bill C-368, an act to amend the Food and Drugs Act (natural health products), referred to the committee on Wednesday, May 29, 2024, to give the bill the consideration it requires, and the chair present this request to the House.

I believe my office has forwarded this motion to the clerk in both English and French so that it can be distributed to the members.

Thank you.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to have a hard copy of the motion. We can continue our discussions once we've received it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We will suspend to provide a paper copy of the motion to all parties. We'll then have Mr. Julian and Dr. Ellis.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I was actually first on the list, Mr. Chair. I'm quite aghast that you would not respect that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

The meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call the meeting back to order.

The motion has been circulated. It is in order. The debate is on the motion.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Chair, you will not do that again, please. When the clerk prepares a list, you have to go by the order in which it is entrusted. I find it deplorable that you basically shifted a list that had been prepared half an hour before the meeting.

I'm going to vote against this motion for an extension. As you know, Mr. Chair, on Monday I served notice that I'll be withdrawing NDP-1 and I intend to withdraw NDP-2 in favour of the Bloc's amendments to this bill.

I have two things to say. First off, the filibuster and the games that we've seen from both Conservatives and Liberals around this bill, I think, have been very counterproductive to consideration of the legislation. We've had filibusters from the Conservatives now for a couple of weeks on a variety of things trying to block consideration of the bill, and now we have the Liberals trying to block consideration of the bill.

I believe the bill can and should be adopted today with the amendments that make sense and improve the legislation. Mr. Thériault has offered a couple of paths to solutions, and I support those. I indicated last Monday, after consultations with the Canadian Health Food Association, that I would be supporting Mr. Thériault's amendments.

I believe we need to move to clause-by-clause. We need to complete consideration of the bill and make those improvements that are necessary so that the bill will also pass through the House of Commons.

My final point is this, Mr. Chair: I have circulated a notice of motion, as you know, that states a response to the concerns within the natural health product industry regarding the lack of consultation when it comes to regulatory changes, including Health Canada having to justify measures with a clear rationale, provide evidence to justify these measures, examine whether defining “therapeutic product” is the best language and ensure that Health Canada conduct authentically representative consultations with stakeholders in the industry, and that this be reported to the House.

To make it clear and transparent with all members of this committee, I intend to move that motion only once we have considered and completed clause-by-clause consideration of the bill. This bill should be completed today. I hope that both Conservatives and Liberals will end the games they've been playing around this bill so that we can improve the bill, because it does require improvement, and that we can move forward, then, to other items on our agenda in the coming weeks in the health committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Julian.

Dr. Ellis, go ahead.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thanks very much, Chair.

As you might say in politics, wow, that was a bit rich, given the fact that Mr. Julian's original motion, NDP-1, was the wrecking motion for this wrecking amendment to this bill. Everybody around this table knows it, and what Mr. Julian should be doing is saying thank you to the Conservative team, who saved his bacon, considering the fact that if we had not talked out the last meeting, he would not have had the ability to consult with the stakeholders, which he clearly failed to do previously, and understand that his amendment would have wrecked this bill totally and absolutely. Now, very sadly, he's trying to turn the table.

Let's just call this what it is: absolutely ridiculous political theatre from somebody who made a giant mistake and refuses to admit it. It would be the appropriate thing to say your wrecking amendment, NDP-1, would have wrecked the bill and you're sorry for that, and to say, “Thank you, Conservative team, once again, for saving my bacon.”

But will you do that? No. You're going to get on your soapbox and say that you now are the saviour of the natural health products industry. This is insanity. We have been here fighting this since the last time your coalition with the Liberals allowed the omnibus bill to pass that created this mess in the first place. If you had stood up in the original instance, none of this would have happened. It's a sad state of affairs.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Dr. Ellis again seems to have forgotten that he has to direct his comments through you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That's a fair point, Dr. Ellis.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

But he didn't challenge the truth.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I will take that point, Chair; you are correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

It drags down decorum when you attack someone directly. It's far better when you do it through the chair.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

I don't know about that, Chair. I think the point has been made here about exactly what has happened. That member of the NDP, that person down there at the end of the table, decided to team up with the Liberals to attempt to wreck this bill, Chair. It's unacceptable. It was unacceptable on behalf of the thousands of stakeholders from whom we received thousands of emails on Tuesday evening. Chair, through you, I know why he changed his mind, because he too received those same emails.

Anyway, that being said, I would like to seek unanimous consent to pass Mr. Thériault's two amendments to this bill and move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We have a motion in front of us. You can do anything by unanimous consent.

Dr. Ellis, can you repeat exactly what you're seeking unanimous consent of the committee to do?

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Chair, I would like to seek unanimous consent to pass the two Bloc amendments to this bill and then accept this bill as is and return it back to the House of Commons with our work completed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You've heard the terms of the request for unanimous consent.

Is it the will of the committee to adopt the two Bloc amendments and report the bill back to the House?

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

This is not for debate. This is a yes or no.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I just have a point of order. I tabled three amendments.