Health Committee on Dec. 12th, 2024

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you so much.

The previous budget, budget 2024, had provided dollars for us to launch the first deals. Obviously, we're well into the year, so when these deals are signed, they'll be prorated.

I want to thank you for your advocacy in the area of diabetes. It's been so important. This country spends about $30 billion a year managing diabetes, and that's just in direct health costs; it doesn't account for lost productivity and the cost to business in this country.

The biggest challenge within that is folks not being able to access their medicine. I can tell you that it's devastating to talk to doctors who have patients in front of them who can't follow through on their treatment regime because they don't have money for their medicine. It is fundamentally essential that everybody be connected to the medicine that they need.

This is a really important step forward, and I think it's a great example of what Parliament can accomplish when we focus on shared objectives.

We're ready to sign those deals very soon. There's obviously a lot that goes into them. As you would have seen from the memorandum of understanding with British Columbia, there's an opportunity to go further than what Parliament envisioned. In British Columbia, we had the drugs involved in hormone replacement therapy for women added to the list, which is deeply exciting. I hope to have other exciting things to be able to talk about as we sign these agreements in the coming days.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

With regard to the CDCP, you also said that 93% of providers have signed on. Can you talk about that?

The CDCP is a huge success. When I go back to my riding, I always have positive feedback. You said that they find common ground, and this is our success too. There are lots of MPs, even the CPC, which you talked about. Their residents are also benefiting.

Can you elaborate on how people are feeling about that?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think it's been incredible to see. The demand that's there exceeded even what I understood to be out there. Watching out in the world and getting an opportunity to talk to providers, I was just talking to the head of The Denturist Association of Canada. He said he had a patient who, for 64 years, had the same pair of dentures, if you can believe that. That was his record. For that lady, every bite was painful. It was down to plastic plates in her mouth, and now she has a pair of teeth, thanks to this program.

I don't see how we could possibly have any partisan differences around that. That's something that's fundamental. You can imagine what that did, not only for her sense of dignity but also for her health.

I talked about Dr. Redmond because it was just one example, and it was one of the early ones. I visited him in Gander, and he identified in his clinic three oral cancers in just the first three months. These are folks who would not have been caught. These cancers would have almost certainly—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have a point of order.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—developed into something much more serious.

This program is critically important. It's saving lives, and it is actually primary care.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We have a point of order from Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I want to offer the minister an opportunity to clarify his response.

He said that the patient he was referring to had a pair of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Doherty, that's not a point of order. You'll have a chance to clarify the questions when you get the floor.

Please continue, Minister and Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I know the supplementary estimates (B) allocate funding to CIHI, trying to support them in improving performance indicators related to shared health priorities across the country. Data is incredibly important to ensure that we have a consistent measurement.

Why is investing in health data so integral for Canadians and for improving the health care system across Canada?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

That's a great question.

If you look at Europe right now, you see that Europe is working collaboratively to eliminate any barriers for interoperability in its system and to have data that flows as freely as rivers. With the advent of AI and new technology, if we have a fragmented data system with data that's locked up in places where we can't get hold of it, we're going to be running around in circles. We'll miss an opportunity for prevention that's absolutely outstanding.

I'll talk about our good friend and former colleague, Arnold Chan. Arnold was very close to all of us. He was somebody who reached across the aisle and loved this Parliament very deeply. He had a genetic form of cancer. It didn't get caught early enough, but he was able to then tell his brother to get screened. His brother found out that he had the same cancer. It saved his brother's life.

In an interconnected data system, once we can sequence the human genome in the next couple of years and have that available to people, being able to tell patients that they're genetically at risk for particular diseases is absolutely so powerful. This is what Bill C-72 can unlock. It would be a wonderful legacy to think of Arnold and what this portends by passing that legislation. I hope that we do it.

It also means incredible things for reducing administrative burden. Maybe I'll talk about that for a second.

You know how frustrating it is to send the same form three or four times, to have information get lost in paper and to not have the ability to send a prescription digitally. We have tools like AI scribes, which can do some of the most menial work around taking notes and take it off a doctor's shoulders. If we can apply that across the system and if we could put that in place, that's equivalent to 1,000 doctors overnight. We can't do that if we don't pass Bill C-72.

A lot of times, data doesn't sound sexy, but the power of data to transform our health system is outstanding. Europe is doing it. We shouldn't waste a second. We have to do it as well. I hope that we can pass it in this Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Sidhu.

Mr. Thériault now has the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, since November 1, have you issued a directive to Sun Life to block requests for partial implants?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

No, not at all. That's not the case.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Denturists and seniors in my riding in Quebec have come to see me to tell me that all their requests have been denied. A survey by the Association des denturologistes du Québec shows that Sun Life rejects 99.5% of pre-approval requests for partial implants. An employee of the company told them that the few requests that were accepted were randomly selected and that they had not been evaluated based on an analysis grid.

To make matters worse, denturists in my riding explained to me that they had called Sun Life to try to understand the denials, as they had been denied 15 times in a row. The employee told them that their applications were perfect, that there were no mistakes and that he had everything he needed to do the analysis. However, he couldn't accept them for the moment because he had received a directive to that effect from the top.

Minister, what is going on with your program? Are you able to control this? You talked about the dignity of seniors earlier. They are the ones who benefit the most from partial implants. How do you explain that?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you for your question.

You're right. Our system has just been expanded, and there's a technical problem with how to use it. I had a very good discussion with the head of the Denturists Association of Canada. Fixing the problem will take a bit of time. The same thing happened when the program was launched. There are technical issues, but we can improve the situation. The problem is temporary. Appropriate solutions to the problem have already been found.

We expected this. This is the largest program in Canadian history. In the beginning of November....

I believe I still have about 10 seconds left, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

We anticipated this. We said the pre-authorization process was deeply complicated and that we needed folks to work with us. The head of The Denturist Association and I had a great meeting. We were able to walk through the issues and talk about how we can resolve them.

I'm not concerned about that over the long term. I'm deeply committed to getting the issues fixed as quickly as possible. This is a different system—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Come on, I want to have some speaking time too, Mr. Chair.

How do you explain the fact that requests denied by your plan are accepted when they are submitted to private sector companies?

Sun Life is not even able to tell denturists why requests are being denied.

This is not a technical issue, Minister. It's an issue of competence in the analysis of requests.

How do you explain that discrepancy?

You offer a private program that leads people to believe that they will have access to services, but then they have to pay their bills. There is also a backlog of unresolved files. The program does not work. We can pat ourselves on the back all we want, but there is a problem.

How and when are you going to fix it?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

First of all, the program has been in place for two weeks. It's a new program, the largest in the history of the country. Sometimes there is a problem when some people—

When folks are putting in the forms, they have to make sure that they're aware of what forms they have to send in. Remember, these things are extremely costly. We need to validate for taxpayers that the work that's being done needs to be done.

This program has existed for two weeks. Give us another two weeks to work through it. We have already made huge progress.

I can understand that you want to fix it, but I'm a little confused by your anger.

You don't have to get angry—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

May I suggest that you apply the same criteria as for requests that are submitted to the private sector? As far as I know, Sun Life has already settled such cases with private insurers.

Why did you establish different criteria from those in the private sector, and why is the list of criteria as long as my arm?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

This is the first time you and I have had time to discuss it. I suggest that we take the time necessary for me to explain to you the reasons for the current situation and the solution to the problem.

When you understand the current situation, the solution and the problem will become clear and obvious.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

When will this be resolved, Minister?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

It will be resolved as soon as possible.

Right now, based on the discussion I had with the head of the Denturist Association of Canada, the vast majority of the issues are resolved.

We understand the solution, but it's going to take a little time, not too much, to implement it and fix a program that has been in place for two weeks. It's a brand new program.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

The program has been in place for more than two weeks, Minister.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

The pre-authorization—