Evidence of meeting #146 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was you're.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
I am talking to you from the traditional territory of the Anishinabe Algonquin, and I'm hoping that this time the sound is working well.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Okay, very good. Thank you so much, and I apologize to the committee for my technical problems.
I do want to note that I want to reserve the final two minutes of my five minutes for Mr. Morrice to ask an important question, so please, Mr. Chair, assist me in that.
Thank you, Minister and officials, for appearing. I did want to ask a couple of questions.
First, in the supplementary estimates, $53 million is devoted to increased support for scholarships and fellowship awards. I hear a lot about the need for more investment in health research, particularly in postgraduate research. I wonder if you'd like to speak briefly to the importance of that from your point of view, Minister.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
Thank you, Mr. Hanley.
Of course, we know research is absolutely fundamental to health transformation. It is the pathway to understanding how we deal with the problems that face us in a complicated world. There isn't a health system that isn't facing these challenges in the world.
I was so happy—as I know you were, Mr. Hanley—that in budget 2024 we responded to the Bouchard report's recommendations to make sure that we have the appropriate supports for postgraduate and graduate students be able to study here and to be able to call Canada home for the research they do.
Research leads to miracles. It is very much the responsibility of.... It really is thanks to research that we have been able to make the kind of progress we have. I'll just give you one example. We talked earlier about diabetes. Canada is perhaps three to five years away from being the country that solves type 1 diabetes, and it is because of the extraordinary researchers in this country. Making sure that the next generation of researchers has the support they need is critical. Money that was in the supplementary estimates to further those goals is critical, not just to keep researchers here so that the science is here and the jobs are here, but also so that the solutions of tomorrow that end the diseases of today are driven and done here in Canada.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Thank you very much.
I'm going to hand it over to Mr. Morrice so that he has time to ask the question and you have some interchange on this important topic.
Thank you.
Green
Mike Morrice Green Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Dr. Hanley, and thank you, Chair.
Mr. Holland, you might remember that we spoke in Parliament earlier this year about a constituent of mine, Noor Ayesha. She'd received a terminal diagnosis of bile duct cancer just after giving birth to her daughter back in February 2023. She and her family and donors on GoFundMe had to raise money to fund a drug that had been approved by Health Canada but not recommended by Canada's Drug Agency. It's a drug that cost $15,000 a month, and it extended her life. Sadly, Noor passed away about a month ago.
The glimmer of hope is that the CDA is now in the midst of reconsidering its decision for a possible recommendation as I and, more importantly, her own oncologist and other doctors had been calling for.
I'm sure you also know that the Canadian Cancer Society released a report this week that shows that the average cancer patient in Canada is grappling with nearly $33,000 in costs over the course of their lifetime. I'm sure that saddens you in the same way it does me, and so I wonder what you can do, or even commit to, in terms of streamlining approvals and funding decisions to speed up access to cancer drugs.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
Thank you, Mr. Morrice. I want to thank you for your advocacy on this, and to say that Noor's case is deeply tragic and is something that lights a fire in us to do everything that we can for action.
I have two quick points. Health Canada, once it approves that a drug is going to be eligible for public reimbursement, it's then up to the provinces to make the decision about whether or not it is publicly reimbursed—I'm sorry: Health Canada approves it, and then the provinces decide if it's eligible for reimbursement.
The arm's-length decision of Canada's Drug Agency is important. Obviously, we want those science-based decisions to not be influenced by politics, but the agreements that we're signing for drugs for rare diseases are so critical. I was so excited to sign the third one in Alberta, because it's a collective commitment to expand our action on drugs for rare diseases and to show a coordinated approach to these diseases. To take cancer as an example, there are costs. We have to do a much better job.
It's pretty incredible, in this country, when you walk into the cancer ward of a hospital. I talked to a doctor there. When she started 30 years ago, the survival rate was only 30%: Today it's 90%. When I talked to those patients.... In fact, I talked to one patient about the experience of an American family member, who was wiped out entirely. They lost everything because of a cancer diagnosis. That's not our case here.
It's still too expensive. We have to do better. However, I think that seeing people where they are and recognizing the urgency of the devastating thing this does to families.... Look, it's bad enough to get a diagnosis, but then to wonder how the heck you're going to pay for your medication is just fundamentally unfair, so we have to go as fast and as far as we can.
Thank you for the question.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Morrice.
Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Minister, you're talking about two weeks of failure in your dental care plan, but that's not true. On November 1, people were waiting for your service and thought they would have access to it. However, today is December 12. When you do the math, you see that the delay is one month and 11 days.
Your plan seems to have been written on the back of a napkin or envelope. That's actually what we were challenging, not the principle of access to dental care along with greater coverage.
However, your plan has been poorly explained, and people think that dental care is free. When people go to the dentist, they realize that they have to pay the difference between the dentist's rate and the fees covered by the plan. From what I hear from various constituency offices, the fee schedule for dentists has practically doubled.
Why didn't you take the time to sit down with the dentists to negotiate a fee schedule? Right now, people find themselves in a humiliating position when they don't have the money to pay for their care. They are told that, ultimately, the care isn't free and that they have to pay the difference.
How are you going to manage that? People are using the government portion as a gift card.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
First, the humiliating circumstance was when they had no coverage, and that's what you're advocating. You've been against the Canadian dental care program. People had no coverage; now you're saying that their paying a small fee is terrible and you are saying they should have no coverage. In Quebec, 500,000 people had care. You're dismissing it like it's nothing.
There are 500,000 people on the plan after just six months. That's amazing. It's good news, not only for Quebec, but also for Canada.
Bloc
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Mr. Thériault, you took more than a minute to ask your question. The minister can continue with his answer. He has as much time as you do.
December 12th, 2024 / 4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Bloc
Luc Thériault Bloc Montcalm, QC
Minister, answer the questions instead of spreading propaganda.
Your plan was badly implemented. Right now, some people don't have access to care even though they were told the opposite. You're telling us that it will be resolved. You're not even saying when it will be resolved.
That's what I call designing a program on the back of a napkin or envelope.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
I didn't agree with your suggestion to give you five minutes.
Minister, I'll give you 20 seconds to respond.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
Five hundred thousand people got care—that's in just over six months—and you're saying it was on a napkin. You dismiss it like it's nothing, and then your position is to not have them get care, and then you're angry that they're not getting care fast enough. Then you're saying pre-authorization isn't being fixed, but you're against having pre-authorization.
You would take away the dentures. Right now, tens of thousands of people in Quebec have dentures. This is great news, but instead of celebrating that, you're attacking and saying, “Get rid of the whole darned program because it's taking a couple of weeks to fix a couple of technical problems.” That's just not logical to me.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Minister.
Next is Mr. Julian, please, for two and a half minutes.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I think the Bloc Québécois will have a hard time defending the position that the Canadian dental care program must be eliminated. The NDP has done a lot of work in favour of the program, and half a million Quebeckers have already had access to care.
However, I'll leave that question to Mr. Thériault.
I want to come back to provinces—particularly Conservative provinces—that are undermining health care.
In British Columbia, we have a very strong province. I took my neighbour to the emergency ward. We had to wait for an hour.
