Health Committee on Dec. 17th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 147 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Health.

In accordance with our routine motion, I'm informing the committee that all remote participants have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is resuming its study on the subject matter of supplementary estimates (B), 2024-25. We have votes 1b and 5b under the Canadian Food Inspection Agency; votes 1b and 5b under the Canadian Institutes of Health Research; votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of Health; and votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Public Health Agency of Canada.

I'd like to welcome our panel of witnesses.

We have with us today the Honourable Ya'ara Saks, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions, who has the following officials accompanying her today.

From the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, we have Dr. Tammy Clifford, acting president. From the Department of Health, we have Greg Orencsak, deputy minister; Eric Costen, associate deputy minister; Jennifer Saxe, associate assistant deputy minister of the controlled substances and cannabis branch; and Michelle Boudreau, associate assistant deputy minister of the health policy branch. From the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have Nancy Hamzawi, executive vice-president, and Michael Collins, vice-president of the health promotion and chronic disease prevention branch.

Thank you all for being with us today. Thank you for your patience while we exercised our democratic duty.

Minister, you have the floor. Welcome to the committee.

We have a point of order from Mr. Doherty.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Chair, since we're starting at 11:56 and the schedule has the minister here from 11 to 12, do we have assurances from the minister that she can stay until at least one o'clock or 1:15?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

We had this conversation as I came in the door. She is able to stay for a full hour, so that should get us through two full rounds of questions. It's then in your hands what we do at that point with the officials, but we have the minister for a full hour.

Welcome, Minister. It's over to you.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members.

It is a pleasure to be back with you at the health committee. I'm pleased to appear before committee today to discuss the supplementary estimates (B) as they relate to my portfolio as the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.

I'd like to begin, if I may, with the emergency treatment fund, which was first announced in budget 2024, and I'll update the committee of its activities.

While no community has been left untouched by the toxic drug and overdose crisis, some communities have been more affected than others.

Through the emergency treatment fund, we are helping municipalities and first nation, Inuit and Métis communities rapidly respond to their unique needs. This can include on-the-land healing, recovery and treatment, and harm reduction supports such as naloxone and drug-checking equipment. The first call for proposals was recently closed. We are reviewing the proposals now and will be announcing the successful projects in the new year.

The supplementary estimates propose $24.9 million to support municipalities and indigenous communities right now. This is critical work. We are supporting community-based projects for young people through the establishment of the Icelandic model in Canada. Your committee heard directly, I believe, from the founders of this model on how it's truly making a difference in the lives of youth across Canada and around the world.

We are funding projects through the substance use and addictions program, which provides time-limited funding for innovative, evidence-informed projects. Together, these initiatives are helping Canadians access high-quality services, no matter where they live.

We're also working to improve access to mental health services, particularly for young people. This is close to my heart, not just as a minister but as a mom to teenage daughters. I've seen first-hand the challenges that youth are facing. Schools, social media, peer pressure and global conflicts are all having an impact on their mental health.

Community organizations are a lifeline when it comes to mental health. We introduced the new youth mental health fund to make sure that young people have easy access to mental health services by the organizations they know and trust in their communities. Additionally, the supplementary estimates propose $7.5 million to support Kids Help Phone. This will allow them to continue to provide 24-7 access to bilingual mental health supports for youth over the next three years.

The Public Health Agency is also receiving $1.9 million in new funding for the mental health of Black Canadians fund, to support development of culturally focused knowledge capacity and Black-led programs to improve mental health for Black Canadians.

Our government is also proposing to allocate $15 million to help first responders deal with mental health issues. They have been there for us, before and now, during and after the pandemic. It's so important that the government be there for them in return.

These are just a few examples of the work we're doing to ensure that high-quality mental health and substance use services are accessible right across the country to Canadians. At the same time, we will continue to work with provinces and territories so that mental health and substance use care can be fully integrated into their health care systems.

I am now happy to answer your questions.

I'll turn it back to you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

We will begin now with rounds of questions, starting with the Conservatives and Mrs. Goodridge, please, for six minutes.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the minister for being here and agreeing to stay for a full hour.

Very quickly, have you believed that decriminalization has been successful in British Columbia?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

The only person or, I would say, party that's preoccupied with decriminalization is the opposition. When we chose to—

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thanks.

We have a tradition in this committee, as you're well aware, that the length of time you get to answer is approximately the length of time the person took to ask the question.

Has decriminalization been successful in Canada, yes or no?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Again, it seems only the opposition is preoccupied with national decriminalization. We work with jurisdictions as per their request.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police and the B.C. Association of Chiefs of Police have both pulled their support from this failed Liberal program and policy.

Will you say that it is a success, yes or no?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I had the opportunity to speak with the CACP directly. We are all in agreeance that all tools are needed to address the toxic drug supply.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Will you rule out rolling out this failed policy anywhere else in Canada?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I commit to always working with jurisdictions, with both their health and community safety measures, to ensure that we're reaching people who are struggling with addiction.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

This is a failed policy that has caused carnage. We are seeing 22 people die every single day across Canada due to the overdose crisis, and your government is failing. Why will you not rule out expanding this failed program?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It seems that the Conservatives are big on outrage but not so great when it comes to work and evidence. We continue to work with provinces and territories, as health is their jurisdiction—as is law enforcement—to ensure that a full suite of tools and measures are there to save lives and get people health care, which is what they need.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Will you rule out rolling this failed policy to anywhere else in Canada?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I commit, as always, to work with every province and territory in their jurisdiction, working on health care and collaborative law enforcement, because that is what they are asking us to do. I don't think that the federal government should be dictating to provinces and territories what is in their jurisdiction.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

The British Columbia Association of Chiefs of Police have pulled their support for this failed policy. Public safety is at serious odds due to this failed policy. Why will you not pull your support and end this now?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Fiona Wilson, the past president of the British Columbia Association of Chiefs of Police, said herself that we need a balance between community safety and health care. This is what we've committed to in working with jurisdictions to ensure that people get health and health care. It needs a balance.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thanks.

I'm going to move on to something a little different.

We know that Canada has become a major producer of the fentanyl in this country as a direct result of your government's failing to do anything when it comes to banning precursors for fentanyl. What are the timelines for actually banning these precursors so that fentanyl is not being produced here?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Unfortunately, the Conservatives are misleading Canadians because the fact is that Canada is a world leader in precursor regulation and in the scheduling of precursor chemicals. As a matter of fact, we have a class scheduling system, which means that we not only look at individual chemicals but also look at classes so that we can be nimble and flexible in the face of an illegal toxic drug supply.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

About six months ago, we had the B.C. RCMP assistant commissioner, Will Ng, come to committee. He said they've been advocating to government for the last two years—it's now been two and a half years—to have these deadly precursors banned in Canada. However, 80% of them are still completely unregulated. Why?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Again, the member is misleading Canadians. Precursor chemicals are found in things that we use daily, whether it's plastic, rubber or paint supplies, etc. This is why they must be scheduled and regulated, which is something we do on a regular basis. Again, we have a world-class system that works in collaboration with the United States and international partners.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

At the SECU committee, RCMP Commissioner Duheme confirmed that Canada is a net exporter of fentanyl. Does that not concern you? Are you not applying every single tool in the tool kit to make sure that Canada is not exporting fentanyl?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I'm absolutely committed to using every tool in the tool kit. These are questions to be asked of the public safety minister. As I said, we schedule and regulate, but working across departments and working with border services and with our U.S. counterparts are critical.