Evidence of meeting #25 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you. I have only about 15 seconds left.
Is there any work being done around treatment and prevention for Canadians who don't wish to be vaccinated, for whatever reason?
6:05 p.m.
President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Mr. Chair, as mentioned by Dr. Lucas, there are prophylactic things, including treatment, with Paxlovid being one of those. It's also making sure that these are available and are appropriately used, at the very first instance, when the diagnosis of COVID is made. Certainly, with more monoclonal antibodies and more of those therapeutics coming online, we will probably want to invest in them with regard to prevention.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Mr. Jowhari and Dr. Kochhar.
Next, we have Mr. Lake, please, for five minutes.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The Liberal platform promised $4.5 billion for a Canada mental health transfer over five years, beginning with fiscal year 2021-22. How much of that money has been allocated so far?
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Mr. Chair, that the government has affirmed its commitment to a Canada mental health transfer—
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
I'm really short of time. How much money has been allocated so far?
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
The government has made investments in mental health and, as noted in the budget, has and will engage the provinces and territories in terms of the work going forward, including on the Canada mental health transfer.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
Can I just clarify? On the amount allocated specifically for the Canada mental health transfer, is the amount allocated so far zero? Yes or no.
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
The government has invested in mental health transfers to the provinces going back to 2017. It has committed to a transfer and will engage the provinces, as outlined in the budget, in terms of the Canada mental health transfer.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
In fiscal year 2021-22, on the “new investment” for the “Canada mental health transfer”, the promised amount was $250 million for fiscal year 2021-22. Is the amount actually allocated zero—yes or no?
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
With regard to the last fiscal year—
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
That's specifically for the Canada mental health transfer promised under the Liberal platform as a new investment in 2021-22.
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
The government is committed to working with the provinces and territories on designing and developing a Canada mental health transfer, as well as other discussions on health, building on investments made from budget 2017 in mental health and addictions as well as home care.
6:05 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
In 2022-23, this fiscal year, the new investment promised—now this is the 2021 Liberal platform—was promised as a new investment for something titled the Canada mental health transfer. How much was allocated for fiscal year 2022-23 for the Canada mental health transfer, the specifically titled “Canada mental health transfer” promised in the 2021 Liberal election platform?
6:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Mr. Chair, as I indicated, the government is committed to working with provinces and territories to deliver the services to support health care, including through our Canada mental health transfer. It is important to have these discussions with our partners to define that and develop the approach.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
Mr. Chair, I respect that the witness is in a difficult position, because I'm referencing a political promise made by the Liberal Party. However, with respect, it's very clear that the Prime Minister did not promise a consultation or an engagement. He promised very explicitly money: $250 million in the last fiscal year and $625 million in this fiscal year. It's very clear that the amount delivered or allocated is zero.
That's not even a question. I'll end there on that.
Changing directions completely, how much fentanyl is considered a lethal dose?
6:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Mr. Chair, I don't have that information at hand. We could follow up with the committee in terms of the specific—
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, AB
That would be great. Based on my quick Google search, it seems to be two milligrams. That seems to be the consensus.
On the new exemption from the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act for personal possession of “small amounts” of certain illegal drugs in British Columbia, I believe the definition of a small amount in this case is 2.5 grams, or more than 1,000 lethal doses. I'm not a doctor, but that's my understanding from a quick Google search.
For any of the witnesses, if your child were at a party with nine other people, and someone at that party was found to be in possession of 1,000 lethal doses of fentanyl, how would you feel? Would you believe that 1,000 lethal doses was simply for personal possession?
6:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Mr. Chair, I'll note two things.
First of all, I believe Minister Bennett is appearing before the committee next week for supplementary estimates. I'm sure she would be happy to speak to this issue.
Secondly, the authorization of this exemption through section 56 of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act was based on a proposal from the Province of British Columbia as part of a comprehensive strategy centred on public health to address the opioid overdose crisis, address stigma, and contribute to saving the lives of people 18 years of age and over.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Thank you, Dr. Lucas, and thank you, Mr. Lake.
Mr. van Koeverden, go ahead for five minutes, please.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'll ask some questions with respect to the opioid epidemic as well, since we're on that subject, for anybody who would like to answer.
There's some fairly incontrovertible evidence that states that we need to treat this epidemic as a health care issue rather than a criminal one, and that the criminality of the drug is actually responsible for more deaths than the lethality of it. Would anybody like to comment on the efficacious nature of decriminalization in other jurisdictions as it applies to saving the lives of people who use substances habitually?
6:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Health
I'll make a comment, Mr. Chair. Dr. Tam may wish to comment as well.
As I've noted, certainly in regard to the extensive proposal developed by the Province of British Columbia and with the support of law enforcement, the criminalization of simple possession within the parameters proposed is subject to a number of conditions being developed through their implementation. It's part of a comprehensive response that includes public awareness and education; harm reduction through a variety of means, including safer supply; stigma reduction through decriminalization; treatment and other wraparound supports; and law enforcement to interdict supply.
On the magnitude of the crisis and the support from a broad range of stakeholders, public health experts, the health care community and law enforcement, people with lived and living experience and other groups have seen this as a critical part of the response. It includes addressing the issue of stigma and the disproportionate impact of the crisis on indigenous and racialized people, who, subject to criminalization, have experienced significant challenges in receiving social supports and supports for treatment and recovery.
6:15 p.m.
Liberal
Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON
Thank you, Dr. Lucas.
Dr. Tam, do you have any reflections on decriminalization?
June 8th, 2022 / 6:15 p.m.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
I concur with Dr. Lucas that we need to take a comprehensive public health-orientated approach. Decriminalization of the simple possession of drugs is one aspect of it. It is important, particularly at this juncture, where there's a very toxic drug supply. We need people to be able to access safer supply as well. During the pandemic, the number of deaths from the substance use crisis increased to 20 a day. This is why now, more than ever, these urgent approaches that are comprehensive are needed.