Health Committee on June 20th, 2022

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

My constituents are also worried about long COVID. I understand that there have been some studies recently about the syndrome's origins, the risk factors and the treatments. Can you tell us, Ms. Thompson or anyone on the team there, what steps the Public Health Agency of Canada is taking to learn more about this post-COVID condition? In terms of the factor of being fully vaccinated, how does that impact subsequent long COVID?

[Kathy Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe I'll take those in that order.

We at the agency are working to monitor and build an evidence base to inform public health decision-making with respect to post-COVID or long COVID. We are working closely with a number of partners to make sure that we build that evidence base, starting with Statistics Canada. We are going to be launching a population-based survey on post-COVID conditions to look at and identify some evidence gaps and try to estimate what percentage of the Canadian population is currently experiencing post-COVID conditions. Then we would propose to do a follow-up survey, a second survey with Stats Canada.

We're also working with the Canadian Institutes for Health Research and with the Canadian Paediatric Society to look at some options for studies looking at the impact on children. I think we'll be in a position later this fall to be able to detail the full scope of the work that's under way. We're also monitoring a number of systemic reviews that are happening worldwide.

In terms of the evidence and how it relates to vaccination, the evidence review by the agency found that the prevalence of post-COVID-19 conditions is approximately 30% to 40% in individuals who were not hospitalized for their initial COVID infection. The current evidence suggests that the prevalence is even higher for those who were hospitalized during the acute phase compared to those who weren't. There is a strong indication that vaccination helps to prevent long-term or post-COVID conditions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Thompson and Ms. Shanahan.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have another question for Ms. Thompson about long COVID‑19. We were talking about it earlier.

What is the situation in Quebec. You are somewhat familiar with the epidemiology of long COVID‑19 symptoms. At this time, how many people have symptoms that last more than six months and that could be incapacitating? Do you have an answer to that?

[Kathy Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That is part of the challenge we are facing. We do not have exact figures, but I will check with Dr. Poliquin for further information. In any case, I know it is difficult to estimate the number of such cases.

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

We are in the process of refining the definition or defining criteria of the post-COVID‑19 syndrome.

We do not have any specific figures right now, but with our partners we are refining the definition and conducting surveys and studies to better determine the prevalence of the syndrome.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

From what you said, I understand that we have some information about the symptoms, but the clinical definition for diagnostic purposes has not been finalized. That is consistent with what the experts told us at our meeting last week.

For your part, are you worried about the impact that long COVID‑19 could have on the work force in the longer term, specifically in the health care system? We know that workers may have been exposed to the virus before they were vaccinated, and that that is a risk. Many of our health care workers were exposed to the virus early in the pandemic.

Does that worry you?

[Kathy Thompson]

Would you like to answer, Dr. Poliquin?

[Dr. Guillaume Poliquin]

We do of course take the post‑COVID syndrome very seriously. We are investing in this area and working with partners to conduct studies on the syndrome. It is too early to say exactly what the long-term effects will be. Yet a study published a few days ago indicates that the risk of developing long COVID‑19 is much lower after being infected with the Omicron variant than the Delta variant. So there are a number of processes, and we are studying various permutations of the problem in order to address it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Poliquin and Mr. Garon.

The last round of questions will come from Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Thompson, continuing with questions regarding the vaccination mandate for domestic travel, there are two government decisions that are of particular interest. The first was the decision on June 1 to extend the travel mandate, and the second was the decision two weeks later, on June 14, to lift the travel mandate.

Were both of those government decisions consistent with advice from your department?

[Kathy Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, I can't speak specifically to advice provided to the government and to ministers as part of the cabinet process, but I can say, as I've stated before, that the science and the assessment of the Public Health Agency supported the decision to lift the vaccine mandate.

As I said earlier, we appreciate that.... It's also required on the part of the government to be able to appreciate and consider the information that they receive from different sources, so the—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Ms. Thompson, did the evidence that your department collects also support the decision on June 1 to extend the mandate?

You spoke of the lifting of the mandate. Did the evidence you were collecting and the science you were reviewing also support extending the mandate on June 1?

[Kathy Thompson]

As I said, we are constantly reviewing the studies and the evidence, and the information that was provided to the government is consistent with what we were seeing at the time when the mandates were being lifted. The advice that was provided was constantly evolving—

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We talked about the lifting already. We're talking about the extension of the mandates now.

I'm just frustrated because I'm asking different questions, but you're giving the same answer to every question. What I want to know is whether the information PHAC was looking at was supportive of extending the travel mandates on June 1.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Thompson, that was the last question.

You won't be interrupted. Take as much time as you need to answer it.

[Kathy Thompson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't mean to repeat the information, but I can only share with you that the evidence fully supported the decision to implement the mandates. With respect to the timing, as I said, the evidence is constantly evolving. New studies are coming out. Dr. Poliquin was talking a moment ago about a study a few days ago on long COVID.

The information is very fluid in this pandemic that we are all living in, and we are constantly considering and reconsidering the data.

What I can say is that at the time when the government lifted the mandate, the public health evidence supported the lifting of the mandate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Thompson and Mr. Bachrach.

To all of our witnesses from the Public Health Agency of Canada, we appreciate your being with us. We appreciate your patience and your professionalism. I don't know that the work of the Public Health Agency of Canada has ever been more visible than in recent times. We certainly appreciate your being here with us and so patiently and professionally handling the questions that were posed to you today.

I wish you all a good evening.

Colleagues, I have a very pleasant task for you before we wrap. Today is the last meeting for our analyst Sonya Norris. Sonya will be retiring in exactly nine days.

I'll say little bit about Sonya. She earned a master's in biochemistry and spent almost a decade in clinical research. She started with the Library of Parliament 24 years ago, in 1998, and was assigned to this committee. Her first study on this committee was on natural health products. Some of the other studies she has penned include organ donation and transplantation, and assisted human reproduction.

From 2012 to 2019, she worked in the other place—on the social affairs, science and technology committee. She wrote a number of reports, including a series on pharmaceuticals, as well as healthy eating, dementia and robotics. In all, she has drafted about 26 committee reports.

I can tell you that, as the chair, I get to meet weekly with the analysts from the Library of Parliament and the clerk to plan the business of the meetings. Sonya has always been professional, pleasant and good-humoured to deal with. I'm sure that you join me in wishing her a happy and productive retirement.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

To Sonya's left is Kelly Farrah. Kelly is going to be attempting to fill the large shoes left by Sonya. She certainly has the credentials, including a Master of Science in epidemiology, as well as a Master of Library and Information Science, and 15 years of experience working in the field of health technology assessment. Prior to joining the Library of Parliament, she was a pharmaceutical review manager with Canada's Drug and Health Technology Agency.

As I read it, she sounds very much like a witness as opposed to somebody who will be on our side.

She has worked with PHAC as a research analyst and with the NACI secretariat. Areas of expertise include clinical and economic evaluation of drugs, vaccines and medical devices, and methods for knowledge synthesis in the health sciences. Please join me in welcoming Kelly to our committee as the analyst.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[An hon. member]

She only has 24 years to go.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Is it the will of the committee to adjourn the meeting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.