Health Committee on Jan. 18th, 2022

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I think we're still learning, because you actually have to monitor over time, so you have to get the booster and then we're monitoring over time.

I think what we will see is that the third booster might increase the durability of the protection, but, of course, the virus itself also changes.

What I think we will see, similar to what happened after the second dose, is that the protection against infection will likely be reduced over time but the protection against severe outcomes is likely to be more enduring.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Is the increased transmissibility of the omicron VOC primarily attributable to immune evasion or an inherent increase in the basic transmissibility of the variant?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

We believe it's both.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thanks.

Could you outline for us what criteria must be met for any infectious disease, or in this case COVID-19, to be classed in the endemic phase?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Endemicity basically means that the virus will continue to circulate in the human population and is not eradicated, but its pattern of spread and transmission becomes more predictable and more manageable. There are no hard and fast thresholds one way or the other. The R number, that reproduction number, when this happens, will likely hover around one, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be epidemics or outbreaks in the years to come. There may be some seasonality to the virus as well. A lot of the experts are anticipating that the virus will hang around and cause ongoing impacts on the human population.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

So PHAC doesn't have specific criteria that you're looking for to make that determination yet?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I think it would be done not just nationally but at the global level because this virus has to be considered internationally.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Earlier in the pandemic you and previous health ministers claimed that Canadians would achieve herd immunity to COVID-19 once 70% and then 80% of Canadians were double-vaccinated.

With double-vaccination exceeding those numbers now, why hasn't herd immunity been achieved?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I don't think I personally used “herd immunity”. We used different benchmarks of vaccination to inform the next sets of policies and what we could expect over the summer or in the fall, for instance, with a higher vaccination rate with two doses. Of course, with the appearance of the delta variant and then the omicron virus, these are moving targets.

I think many experts believe that the so-called herd immunity may not be achievable with this virus because it undergoes constant evolution, so what you're looking at is this endemic state in which people will get reinfected over time as immunity wanes and then it would also be determined by the appearance of variants that may invade the immune system as well.

I think that is the reality. It is going to be more like an endemic virus.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

Thank you, Dr. Tam.

Colleagues, I see the clock at 5:13, which means that we have a couple of minutes. May I suggest that the Conservatives ask a final question and the Liberals ask a final question and then we call it a day? Is everyone okay with that approach?

Very well—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes, Mr. Berthold; go ahead.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I'd like to ask Dr. Tam for a clarification.

Dr. Tam, earlier you mentioned the vaccination rate in your office.

Were you talking about the 92% vaccination rate at the Public Health Agency of Canada?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Maybe I'll turn to the president to confirm, but yes, that was based on our agency. As part of the public service, we were pretty much aligned with what the federal public service vaccine coverage has been.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I want to make sure I understand. The obligatory vaccination mandate also covers the Public Health Agency of Canada. So you are telling us that currently 92% of people are partially or fully vaccinated at the Public Health Agency of Canada.

What happens to the 8% who are not vaccinated?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

If the president is not going to answer the question, I will try. I believe the vaccine coverage increased from 92% to 99%. Now, of course, much care is taken to review the remaining individuals who are not vaccinated to figure out why they're not, and then the course of action is taken according to their specific personal circumstances.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold. You've asked two questions rather than one.

In the interest of fairness, we have two questions for the Liberal side.

Next on my list is Mr. Jowhari, unless he ceded the floor to someone else.

We'll have a couple of questions from the Liberals, and then we'll call for an adjournment.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you. I'll ask one question and give the other question to Mr. Powlowski.

This is for whoever can answer. I think Dr. Tam probably would be the one.

Dr. Tam, can you tell us what strategies PHAC is using to monitor Canadian immunity to COVID-19?

Thank you.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Dr. Lucas might be closer to the file, but we support, through funding mechanisms to the COVID-19 Immunity Task Force, in collaboration with many partners—including Statistics Canada and the Canadian Blood Services—in monitoring throughout the course of this pandemic the level of immunity in the general population and also in specific groups of Canadians. That has been tracked over time.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

I would just add that those studies continue and, as Dr. Tam indicated earlier, are a very significant piece of work being advanced by the Canadian immunity task force, Canadian Blood Services/Héma Québec, StatsCan and others to have a broad view of the level of immunity through infection in the population consequent upon the omicron wave now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Dr. Powlowski, you have the last question.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Dr. Tam, you and I and a number of other people on this panel have been at this for two years. I don't know about you, but I'm feeling fairly optimistic that, yes, this is a bump in the road, but things are going to get better. What do you think?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Yes, I'm always trying to be optimistic. As I've said, every pandemic ends, and we now have many more tools available to us, including a lot more knowledge on vaccines.

We have so much innovation in the field. This will be one of the most studied viruses, I think, and the treatments are coming out and the tests and a lot of collective learning on this very virus, so I think with that I am definitely remaining very optimistic about the months ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That's an excellent note on which to finish.

To all of our public servants, though it's trite to say and we've heard it many times that COVID didn't come with a manual, so allow me, on behalf of the committee and more broadly, to sincerely thank you for your service. Thanks for being available to come here on an emergency basis, as was required, and to stay as long as you have. Your dedication testimony are greatly appreciated. I have little doubt that our paths will cross again in this session, so we say “thank you and goodbye” but probably not for long. Thanks again.

Colleagues, there's just one item before we adjourn. Unless something else arises over the next couple of weeks, the plan right now is that our first meeting upon the reconvening of Parliament on January 31 will be a meeting of the subcommittee to discuss the business and activities for the upcoming session, with the full committee meeting thereafter on February 2 to ratify or discuss the subcommittee's recommendations. That's just to give you a heads-up that this is the plan as it presently stands.

With that, is it the will of the committee to adjourn?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.