Health Committee on Oct. 24th, 2022

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Can you get it to the committee by the end of the week, please?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I can certainly turn to my officials to work with you on that, yes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Duclos, under proposed section 7 of the dental benefit act, eligible families can apply to receive additional benefits if a child's dental care exceeds $650. Is there a cap on the dollar amount of this additional benefit?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

The maximum is $650 per year, and $1,300 over two years. Beyond this level of $70,000 family income, there is a copayment, which is 40%, and another copayment of 60% beyond $80,000 to $90,000. Before $70,000 there's no copayment, so it is up to $650, and then there are the two levels of copayments I mentioned, between $70,000 and $90,000.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

How were these thresholds attained? How did you come up with them?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

First, that was the commitment we made. Second, there needs to be a slight change between $70,000 and $90,000 for there not to be an abrupt cliff at $90,000. It's a way to smooth the—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Minister, with all due respect, you're not answering my question. These numbers, how did you come up with these thresholds?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

These are thresholds that had been suggested by various stakeholders who also have experience in—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Which stakeholders?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We've consulted. I have about two pages. I can list them. I suppose that's not of great interest to all of the committee members, but obviously they're experts, including dental health care experts but also dental health experts from a variety of perspectives.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

With respect to both the rental and dental payments, how were those thresholds come to, the $500 and $650? How were they thought up? Why $650 per year for two years? Why $500? That's for Minister Hussen.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

About the $500 one-time top-up payment to the Canada housing benefit, I feel like I have to always repeat this. This is on top of an existing permanent program called the Canada housing benefit, which is delivering an average of $2,500 to vulnerable renters right across the country, in every province and territory. The Canada housing benefit is working, but we recognize there are additional challenges. That's why the one-time top-up payment of $500 is very critical.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister Duclos, with respect to proposed subsection 9(2), in the case of a shared-custody parent who is entitled to 50% of the amount of the benefit outlined in proposed subsection 9(1), can you explain the rationale behind the decision to split the amount between parents in a shared custody situation?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a great question. Let me turn to Ms. Tomson because a great question requires a good answer, and she'll provide a good answer.

[Lynne Tomson]

This is based on the Canada child benefit. That is how that is structured. In shared custody it is 50% shared by the agreement that CRA would have in its possession about the arrangement for that child. We are following that same approach as is being undertaken under the Canada child benefit. Each parent would need to apply. They could receive 50%, depending on their income.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Tomson and Mr. Doherty.

Next is Mr. Jowhari, please, for five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, thank you to both ministers and your officials for coming on such short notice. I understand this is a bill that's not only important to the government but important to Canadians. I just want to acknowledge that and thank you.

I'm going to start with Minister Duclos.

Minister Duclos, at the outset there was a lot of discussion around consultation with the provinces and territories. You were very clear in responding to that. Some of my colleagues later on asked about the level of consultations that were done with the experts. You said you were in a position to share that. Sir, can you share with us who you talked to and what the scope of it was? It would probably shed some further light into that breakdown that was the topic of discussion a few minutes ago.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you. You'll stop me when I have exhausted my time.

They were the Canadian Dental Association; the Manitoba Dental Association; the Ontario Dental Association; New Brunswick, Yukon, Nova Scotia; the Dental Association of P.E.I.—and then I'll skip a couple of others—the Canadian Dental Hygienists Association; the Association des chirurgiens dentistes du Québec; the Association of Canadian Faculties of Dentistry; the Canadian Association of Public Health Dentistry; the Canadian Dental Assistants Association; the Canadian Dental Therapists Association; the Denturist Association of Canada; the Canadian Academy of Pediatric Dentistry; the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians; the Coalition for Dentalcare; the Canadian Society for Disability and Oral Health; the Society of Rural Physicians of Canada; Children's Healthcare Canada; and HelpAge Canada.

I have about 20 more that I could list as well.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

That really gave me a sense that you reached out not only to oral health professionals but also to pediatricians to be able to have a whole approach. It makes me a lot more comfortable understanding where the benefit of $650 came from. Was there a logic in saying that $650 is equivalent to one annual checkup, one annual cleaning and one annual...? Is there anything that you or your official could share to shed light on that?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a wonderful question.

It's indeed what we did. When I say “we,” I mean all those experts and very engaged stakeholders who care very much about the dental health of our children. They looked at, as you said, a basket of what preventative, diagnostic and curative services would be, looking at it over a significant amount of time as to what's right for them to reduce their risk of ending up with their oral health in bad condition, which, as I said, can lead to severe cases of generalized infections, diabetes and many other diseases that have an impact on long-term health.

Having constructed that basket, they estimated the average cost of that particular basket and ended up with the figure of about $650, which, in some cases, might be above what they would need in a particular year, but that's fine. Because the cost of living for families with such young children is very significant, we know they'll be using these resources for the best health care services possible for their children.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, this package is called the Canada dental benefit, and we understand it's over two years, but this is our initial work toward what we call the national dental care program. Can you explain how the work that we are doing now would strongly position us to be able to not only develop but roll out the longer term national dental care program?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, MP Jowhari, for recalling that this is a first step, an interim step, an interim benefit that is going to have an immediate impact on approximately 500,000 children of low to average income, and this is where we know the need is the greatest. Then, as you also pointed out, there will be a second program, a longer-term program that, as we discussed earlier with MP Kwan, will be better suited to the dental health care that other Canadians, including younger children, will need over time. That includes seniors, people with disabilities and people in relatively low or middle income ranges.

We know that this is going to be further improved over time, but we are quite grateful for your support and very proud of this immediate step that we're soon going to be able to take following, hopefully, approval by Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Jowhari.

Mr. Garon, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Minister, we are going to do a bit of a sprint.

I am going to ask you a technical question. Assume that I am a single-parent mother, my salary is $20,000 per year, I am eligible for the program, and I submit a dentist's bill for $2.50.

How much will the payment I am entitled to be?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

A person who meets the criteria, who does not have access to private dental insurance, and who plans to spend...