Evidence of meeting #53 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was child.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Tracie Afifi  Professor, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Carrie Foster  President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association
Stelios Georgiades  Director, Offord Centre for Child Studies
Lindsey Thomson  Director, Public Affairs, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

February 9th, 2023 / noon

Professor, University of Manitoba, As an Individual

Dr. Tracie Afifi

Yes. With that, we need to integrate our services. We can't be working in silos. I think that's really important. It's important across things like child protection and health. We need to have integrated services for sure. That's our best efforts. We need to continue to talk about mental health and reduce the stigma, but we also need to have those conversations early on with children.

As one of the other witnesses said, we need to be checking in on children. We need to be giving them the tools and the language and their own ability to identify when they need help. These feelings that they have inside might be anxiety. They might not be able to identify them as anxiety, so if we make it as normal...that we all have these feelings, and sometimes anxiety is healthy and helpful and sometimes it's too much and it makes things harder for us. Giving those children the tools to know that these things are normal and healthy reduces the stigma. It also gives them the ability to communicate to us instead of having it come up in unwanted behaviour or other problems. It might take some time for a teacher or parent to recognize that it isn't defiant behaviour, that the child is struggling with a mental health problem. Is it anxiety or depression? Whatever it may be, it's surfacing in perhaps a behaviour that is identified as unwanted.

Noon

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Thank you for that.

Do you want to add to that?

Noon

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

Sure. Thank you.

Counsellors and psychotherapists are also trained in cultural humility. I think that's a big piece that needs to be addressed. That is just being able to speak, understand and inform yourself as to the cultural and ethnic background of your client so they are being addressed and helped in terms that meet their language and cultural values. I think that's a big piece.

Lindsey, is there anything else we wanted to say about that? That's it, yes.

Noon

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

Do you want to add on the integrated services, one-stop shop?

Noon

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

A one-stop shop?

Noon

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

The integrated services: the psychotherapist, psychiatrist, social services—

Noon

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

I think teamwork is always important in terms of who can do what. One stop hopefully is there, if it's a good fit, so if I'm needing a drama therapist as opposed to a psychiatrist, or a play therapist, I'm getting my needs met for my child or youth. It's not necessarily a psychiatrist who's going to be helping my child and being able to access their need through talk therapy, but there are other methodologies out there that we need to be including more of.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Ms. Foster.

Mr. Garon, you have two and a half minutes.

Noon

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Foster, I'll continue with you. I have a 140-page document in front of me. It's the Quebec government's Plan d'action interministériel en santé mentale 2022‑2026 — S'unir pour un mieux-être collectif. Area 4 covers all actions for children, youth and their families, actions over four years that include new funding.

You're in Quebec. I imagine that as a psychologist, you've read this document.

Noon

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

I'm not a psychologist, but rather a couple and family therapist.

Noon

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Right. You represent them.

Ms. Thomson, have you read this document?

Noon

Director, Public Affairs, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Lindsey Thomson

Not in detail, no.

Noon

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

We work with a clientele—

Noon

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

If it were a good, well-funded plan—there are 140 pages of it—that were ready to go, that would be the kind of plan that the Government of Canada could unconditionally fund, right?

Noon

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

I would like to follow up on this document. I promise that I will read it.

However, I hope that this includes private practitioners and couple and family therapists, because in Quebec, they aren't currently included.

Noon

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

It's recommended reading.

I'm accused of always asking the same question, but we have this tendency in Ottawa to hear from people who think that the provinces don't have standards and that Quebec doesn't have standards. It almost implies that our children aren't important. Then, when we get here, we're told that standards are needed to monitor the provinces, but I have 140 pages of standards in front of me. It's not a lack of courtesy, but I would have found it interesting if we could have discussed this document here in Ottawa.

I have one last quick question for you. Does the Quebec sales tax apply to psychological services?

Noon

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

Do you mean psychotherapy? As a psychotherapist, I can tell you that it does.

Noon

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

Okay. So your opinion is that, as part of the harmonized tax, that should be removed.

Is there a problem with the availability of psychological services in Quebec? I get the impression that we have a labour shortage and that we should have the means to train more people. There is currently a bottleneck in terms of availability.

12:05 p.m.

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

Especially for psychologists and psychiatrists.

In Quebec, there are counselling therapists and psychotherapists who are ready to work and willing to become members of a professional body. However, the Government of Quebec's approach to professional bodies doesn't allow them to be admitted. So people don't have access to these services unless they pay out of their own pockets.

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Denis Garon Bloc Mirabel, QC

So you feel there are enough resources.

12:05 p.m.

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

This is unfortunate, and I hope that Quebec will change this soon.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

Thank you, Ms. Foster.

Mr. Davies, please, for two and a half minutes.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

My information is that less than 20% of youth who need mental health services receive appropriate treatment. Does that jive with your practical experience?

12:05 p.m.

President-Elect, Canadian Counselling and Psychotherapy Association

Carrie Foster

Yes, and I can tell you that my waiting list is about two years long at this point in time.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I think it's fair to say that there's been a societal shift, and maybe—hopefully—a political shift in the last, say, 10 years, where we now recognize mental health to be a core part of overall health, and not any different, really, from physical health. Yet, we are not providing treatment to a huge number of our citizens. Of course, as we're studying children, who I think are often among the most important people in our lives, we're letting a significant part of their health go untreated.

My question is this: Is it time to bring access to mental health services under our universal health care system so that everybody can get treatment when they need it?