Health Committee on Feb. 14th, 2023

[Dr. Marco Di Buono]

That is a very good question.

Let me answer in English to be clearer.

Thank you for the question.

I think it's very important to recognize that schools are one of the many locations within the community ecosystem that play an important role in providing opportunities for children and youth to access sport, physical activity and recreation, but that also includes municipal parks and recreation organizations, youth-serving organizations, and local sport clubs.

The mechanism that was employed for Community Sport for All—identifying national organizations like Participaction, Jumpstart and many others to really understand where, at the very grassroots of grassroots, the opportunities needed to be supported and funded—was an excellent mechanism for delivering funding right where it needed to have an impact.

There may be other mechanisms. We know that there's a large investment made through national sporting organizations via Sport Canada to try to trickle that funding down through the provincial sport organizations and sport bodies to local clubs and organizations as well.

There could be a portfolio approach, quite frankly, to getting funding where it needs to be.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

I have 15 seconds left.

Lastly, do you think that the loss of control in sports federations, as has happened at Gymnastics Canada and at hockey hazing rituals in particular, could discourage children, including young girls, from participating in sports?

[Dr. Marco Di Buono]

Again, that's a very good question.

I think we need to recognize that sport happens in many more locations than just local clubs. The vast majority of organizations that we support are on the periphery of organized sport. They provide safe, welcoming and inclusive places for kids to participate. We're seeing participation in those organizations actually oversubscribed relative to some of the traditional sporting venues.

The short answer is that I think there are many opportunities for kids to participate in places where they won't encounter some of the challenges we're hearing about in more organized sporting venues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Di Buono.

Next is Mr. Davies, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Webb, going back to your written submission, the Coalition for Healthy School Food recommends that a national school nutritious meal program should provide “universal” access to students. Can you outline why the coalition is advocating a universal program rather than means-tested program?

[Carolyn Webb]

One of our big positions is that children of all socio-economic demographics are not eating well and that all children deserve access to healthy food at school. Many might have a long bus ride if they're in a rural community and travel a long way to school, or their families work long hours and they can't access food, or their families don't have the budget. There's a wide range of reasons that children can't access food during the school day.

The universal piece is to address all students. It's also that targeted and means-tested programs do not actually achieve the aims they set for themselves. They have a lot of stigma attached, which means that those the program is intended for tend to refuse to participate and the program is not as effective.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Got it. Thank you.

Dr. Warshawski, Bill C-252 would restrict food and beverage marketing directed at persons under 13 years of age, and I think you've done an excellent job of explaining why children under that age are particularly vulnerable.

However, I'm wondering about children 14 to 18. They may not have the same vulnerability in terms of their belief systems about what they see on TV, but these are kids who have money. They're the ones who are independently able to go purchase their foods, including junk foods. Do you have any thoughts on restricting food and beverage marketing to children between 14 and 18?

[Dr. Tom Warshawski]

We would love to see that happen. In fact, that was our initial proposal back in 2015 when we met with the government.

You're right about the unique vulnerabilities of adolescents. They have discretionary income, they have less supervision, and they have unique drivers in terms of their social relationships. With adolescence comes a shift in affiliation from the parents to peers. Peers become very important. There is also a need for immediate gratification, which adolescents demonstrate, so they are particularly vulnerable to marketing. The marketing techniques on social media are increasingly directed at them through sophisticated user-generated marketing techniques and geolocating, so they are extremely vulnerable.

We would, again, like to see the protection expanded to this group. One of the things we discussed with Health Canada is that if and when—and hopefully it's going to be soon—we get the protection for kids under the age of 13, we look to see how marketing has shifted. It could be sort of a game of whack-a-mole: You inhibit marketing to kids under the age of 12 or 13, and then all of a sudden it increases toward adolescents. What happens to that marketing? What does it do to the purchasing behaviours?

The first step is to get it for the younger children, and the next step is to really keep an eye on what's happening with adolescents.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Warshawski.

Next we have Dr. Kitchen, please, for five minutes.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank all the witnesses for being here today and for their presentations, because they have provided some valuable information.

We all know the value of physical activity for our youth and for our children. We see—as we've heard many times—the reduction in blood pressure, the decreased risk of type 2 diabetes, the increased self-esteem and the increased social aspects of things. Many of your organizations do that.

We've also heard about and seen here in Canada the huge inflationary costs in today's world in the cost of food, and the “just inflation” we're seeing is just a huge impact on it.

On top of that, we've had in the last—

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'll give the honourable member the benefit of the doubt, assuming that was a slip of the tongue, but I think it's inappropriate to use those types of terms in committee.

[A voice]

I don't think that's a point of order.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

That's not a point of order. This isn't the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Well, the same rules apply, to a certain degree, but go ahead, Dr. Kitchen.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you. I assume my time has been adjusted accordingly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You are correct.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

Ultimately, what we're seeing is this huge inflationary cost, and you've mentioned some of that. What has happened, though, is that we also saw this government change the Canada health food guide.

Before I became an MP, I spent 30 years of practice teaching and educating my patients and families on the Canada health food guide. The changes that have happened are going to drastically change many aspects of it. Those inflationary costs of the foods that they've now put in that guide are going to be a huge challenge for you, Ms. Webb, in proposing....

I just want to hear your comments. Are you following the new guide, and what increasing costs do you see?

[Carolyn Webb]

I can only speak to what I've heard from the members of our coalition. I support the coalition rather than run programs myself.

Your question is specifically whether programs are following the food guide. I'll say that it depends on the program. Some have provincial and territorial nutrition guidelines that they follow, and those are slowly being adjusted to match the food guide. Those programs will model the food guide.

COVID created a lot of challenges for programs, especially when kids were in lockdown and at home. Many of the programs adjusted to try to give them boxes of food in some cases, or other things. The food was often prepackaged. Many of the health restrictions at the time limited fresh whole food, so many of the programs took a big step backward toward processed foods. I believe they're getting back slowly, and many make their best attempts to follow the food guide.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I appreciate that.

On that note, are your organizations concerned about possible liability aspects if they don't follow the Canada food guide?

[Carolyn Webb]

I haven't heard anything about liability. I've heard a lot of interest in serving kids whole, healthy foods and trying to do that whenever possible.

I think one of the biggest concerns is the lack of funding and how difficult it is sometimes to meet the needs of the food guide with such a tiny budget if there's just 15¢ for a meal or to meet other things.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

Dr. Di Buono and Mr. Antunes, I appreciate your comments. I'm with Participaction, as well as with Jumpstart. I've been involved and recognize the great value of them.

The unfortunate part of it is that we saw with COVID.... I go back to the days when Participaction was on the news. It was about the 60-year-old Swede compared to the 30-year-old Canadian. That information seemed to be missing during COVID. I understand there's a lot of funding that gets out there to advertise that.

I wonder if I could get comments from you, Mr. Antunes, on what happened during that time frame.

[Elio Antunes]

Thank you for the question.

Maybe I can refer back. I think you started off your comments by saying we value physical activity. I would challenge that. I would say we don't value physical activity. Just 28% of kids are meeting national physical activity guidelines. I think we understand the benefits of physical activity, but as a society, we don't value it. If we valued it, we would ensure that kids have the opportunities to be active every day, whether at school, at home or in the community. We really need to ensure that as a country, we really value it and demonstrate that value through investment and policy.

You talk about awareness. I think that is part of the equation. Our sector, as a whole, is very underfunded. Our organization, for instance, has been around for 52 years, but we're looking at a wind-down option beyond March 31, because our funding ends. We need to continue to invest not only in organizations but in policies and programs that ensure we value physical activity for kids wherever they are. I would say this is one point.

I would say that the other thing with respect to COVID is that there's a challenge because most of us ended up pivoting to virtual or online types of supports. We did that because everybody was at home. We, in a sense, contributed to the physical inactivity issue by being on screens. I think there's some effort that needs to happen to get people back to in-person physical activity and sport programming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Antunes.

Next we have Dr. Powlowski for five minutes.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I wanted to put a different spin on the issue of the importance of getting kids into sports.

I'm the member of Parliament for Thunder Bay—Rainy River, which includes a number of small towns like Atikokan and Fort Frances. Thunder Bay and particularly those small towns need immigrants because they won't have enough Canadians for those jobs. The problem is that when immigrants come to these small communities, often they don't stay; they go on to a bigger centre where there's often a bigger ethnic community and also where there's more to do. In the small towns in the winter, if they're from some warm country, a lot of people spend a lot of time in their houses, and they aren't happy.

That all changes when your kids get into hockey. My wife came from the Philippines 15 years ago. First of all, all of her friends were from the Philippines. Then two of my kids got into minor hockey, and suddenly she's an expert on hockey. She's yelling out to the ref, “Offside!" A lot of her friends are now people from outside the Filipino community.

I think hockey is a great way of integrating people into Canadian society and giving them something to do in small towns. I would say it's not just hockey; skiing is another way. Not only is it an important activity and a way of integrating into society, but I think getting outside is also really important.

Mr. Di Buono, Jumpstart has done a lot in this area. How can the federal government work with organizations such as yours to get more kids involved in hockey? If I could throw it in there, besides the immigrant kids, I think a lot of indigenous kids find the cost of minor hockey to be a real financial barrier.