Health Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I call the meeting back to order. The health committee is now meeting in public and in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021.

Please don't take screenshots of your screen. The proceedings will be made available on the House of Commons website. Please observe all public health protocols.

Colleagues, we are in committee business. There are three things that I hope we will be able to accomplish aside from anything else you may wish to raise. Perhaps I could just tell you what they are. If we could dispense with them right away, that's fine, if that's the will of the committee.

First, we need to set a deadline for witness lists for both the COVID and the health workforce studies. The clerk has suggested five o'clock this Thursday. That way invites can go out on Friday for witnesses to appear after the constituency week.

Second, around three o'clock eastern time, you would have all received some study budgets. It mostly hits at some shipping for the two studies. If we could dispense with the study budgets, that would be appreciated.

Third, perhaps we could also basically agree on the order of studies after the constituency week in terms of which day is COVID, which day is the health study.

Those are three housekeeping matters. As we are in committee business, now is the time to raise anything else you wish.

I recognize Dr. Powlowski.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you.

I had my hand up before, as I wanted to be the first in before the rancour starts and the mud starts getting thrown. I have a big pile of mud waiting to be thrown, too.

In continuation of our previous conversation as to where we're going with the committee, I agree with Don. I think at least for the first little while we ought to be keeping an eye on what the issues are with COVID. I agree with Don that it is constantly changing. I think that's why it's important that the health committee spends half its time still looking at COVID, given that this has been the biggest health issue of the last, what, 100 years or something. No, I can't say that. I'm forgetting HIV/AIDS, which I think was probably as big if not better.

The other thing I think we want to do initially is to have—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Sorry to interrupt, but the interpretation can't be carried out because the sound isn't sufficient.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

I'm not sure, Dr. Powlowski, whether it may be a problem with your mike placement.

Can the interpreters provide any advice?

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

How is it now with my mike at my nose?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Are we able to get interpretation?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Naaman Sugrue]

Mr. Chair, I suggest that Mr. Powlowski unplug his mike and plug it back in. There's just some static interference that's not normal.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

How's that? Is it any better?

[The Clerk]

We'll just have him raise it a bit and continue.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Okay.

Now where was I in my soliloquy here?

I think this is a good opportunity maybe—oh, and Arnold Viersen's here.

Welcome, Arnold, to the big leagues. You finally made it to the health committee.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Yes. I was wondering when I'd get my bucket of mud.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

To continue, though, I think now it is a good opportunity to review where we are with COVID. Omicron really changed the equation. It changed the equation in terms of a couple of things. It certainly is more contagious, although somewhat less virulent, and certainly a lot of people have had it.

I think where we are right now is very different from where we were two years ago. In the initial first or second day, I would like to hear from the experts, both the epidemiologists and infectious disease people, as to how they see omicron changing the equation and where we are both nationally and internationally with respect to the virus.

Also, if I can get a little politics in here, I'd like to say that personally I think this is the time where we should, as a nation, be starting to feel a little bit of joy. We're coming out of omicron. Things were already getting better before omicron, and a lot of the health measures were being dropped. Omicron, obviously, set us back somewhat. It was a bump in the road, but now with omicron numbers coming down....

If you look at other countries, they had a sharp spike, and it's coming down. The virus has mostly mutated to a less virulent form. I think we should be happy. It really bothers me that there's all this rancour right now and that we are at each other's throats when things look pretty good in terms of dropping a lot of the mandates and getting back on our way to normalcy.

Let's talk initially about where we are, and then afterwards—I do agree quite a bit with Stephen Ellis—about where we go and talk about omicron preparedness. I think that is a useful approach to start with.

This is my last little political shot. We've gotten here. We've done pretty well so far. The fact that we've had one-third the death rate per capita of the United States means that, rather than having 90,000 dead Canadians, there are 30,000. It is far too many, but we have done well so far. It's not over yet, but so far, compared to most countries, I think we've done exceedingly well, and that's because of all Canadians.

That includes a lot of the people who are out there in Ottawa. I know quite a few of them have been vaccinated, and a lot of them have been involved in the shutdowns. Thanks to all Canadians, we are where we are, and we've saved so many people. I'd just like to acknowledge that at the beginning because I wish we'd get over our arguing and get on with life. Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Powlowski

Dr. Ellis, please.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Certainly, as we've come to this planning meeting, there are two things that come to the forefront. One is the business that you brought forward, sir. I would at some point like to dispense with that so that we can again get to the business of the committee. Second, for the first meeting that we're back after constituency week, I would think it's important to have PHAC and the AG here to talk about some very specific things, such as the prevalence of COVID worldwide, vaccine rates worldwide, vaccine mandates, restrictions worldwide, vaccine passports worldwide and what we are doing with respect to the future here in Canada. I think that's important for Canadians. The information we would glean from having PHAC and the AG here would be essential to help us understand that and answer those questions.

With respect to the time here in the committee, from this side of the room, I would suggest that we dispense with those things the chair had recommended and continue to move forward as we've been able to in the last couple of meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thanks, Dr. Ellis. It's greatly appreciated.

The first item of housekeeping is a deadline for finalized witness lists for the COVID and health workforce studies. As I indicated, the clerk recommends five o'clock eastern this Thursday so that invites can be sent out Friday.

Is it the consensus of the committee that the deadline for finalized witness lists for both the COVID and health workforce studies be Thursday at 5 p.m.?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chair, I just have a point of clarification.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Absolutely. If there isn't consensus then we should talk about it. Go ahead, Don.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I'm just confused about the question.

You're asking for a final list of witnesses for the health care human resources study. Are you also asking for a final list of witnesses for the COVID component of our work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Yes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Is it too premature?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I might just say that I think we're all a lot more developed on the human resources part of it. At least I am, so I wouldn't have any difficulty doing that. Of course, there are six meetings.

The thing about the COVID study is that it could go until June. I guess I have a little bit of difficulty with the final part of it. I think what we can do is ask every party to throw in a healthy dose or crop of witnesses so that the clerk can schedule for the first couple of months. I don't think that should be final at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

I think that makes eminent sense. Let's take out the word “final” and ask for witness lists to be submitted on the understanding that supplementary witness lists could be warranted at a later date. Thanks for that.

Is there any other discussion on the deadline for witness lists?

[The Clerk]

It seems everyone in the room agrees with your suggestion of removing the word “final”, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Great. Is everyone okay with the non-final witness lists being submitted on Thursday?