Health Committee on Nov. 1st, 2023

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The amount is actually $12 billion in total.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

We can compare.... Again, I'm not sure. If your objective is to try to play some sort of gotcha game, I—

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

No, Minister, my objective—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

It doesn't appear that you're interested in asking about the pandemic. This seems to be—

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Minister, the question was how much, and you can't give us.... The reality is that I'm looking at Public Health Agency of Canada documents—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I gave you a number. It's $4.8 billion.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

—that clearly indicate the amount. The amount you're giving is totally different.

Let's stick with the one we have here. The reality is that $12 billion is the total that they have been projected to spend in 2022-23. Now, next year it will be less. Ultimately, it will be down to $3.379 billion. That amount of money will be spent strictly on issues around disease prevention and control. The reason for it is that the budgetary authorities for the procurement of COVID-19 vaccines have been stopped. That's why there's the reduction.

Can you tell me how many vaccines were purchased with that $2-billion plus?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

What I can tell you is that Canada's response and ability to procure vaccines—

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you. You—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

—was among the best in the world.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Can you tell me the number?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

You asked a 40-second question. The minister can take 40 seconds to answer it, not four.

Go ahead, Minister.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Canada's response to the pandemic ensured that every Canadian had the vaccines they needed. It meant that Canadians got vaccinated. That saved hundreds and hundreds of thousands of lives.

The quantity of vaccines purchased was enough to ensure that everybody in our population was vaccinated. I'm deeply proud of not just of the government's work but also the work across the health system to make sure—

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you. That's 40 seconds.

How many vaccines were purchased—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

That's your time, Dr. Kitchen.

Dr. Hanley, you have five minutes, please.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to add my welcome, Minister Holland, to you and to all the officials here at committee, most of whom I can't even see.

Minister, as you mentioned in your opening comments, you were recently in British Columbia to announce the first agreement as part of the bilateral agreements that were outlined back in February. I'm certainly looking forward to the progress on the bilateral agreements around the country, particularly with the Yukon, as I know you are too.

In this committee, as you know, and as Mr. Powlowski referred to, we did study the health care workforce crisis with many important recommendations coming out of that study. Completely related to that dire shortage of health care professionals is the lack of access to a family doctor or primary care team professionals. Too many Canadians don't have access to primary care.

I've met several times with local professionals and organizations in my own territory but also with important national organizations like CNA and CMA. They recommend many measures, such as supporting mental health and retention initiatives and encouraging targets—“clear, measurable targets” in the words of CMA—that enhance patient access, improve working conditions and modernize health systems.

You touched on many of those aspects in your remarks. I'd like you to comment on some of these goals, particularly how we work with provinces and territories on measurable outcomes that include relief for our most valuable health care professionals but also rapidly help Canadians get access to primary health care—all within about a minute, if you can.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

It's essential that every Canadian have a relationship with a family doctor. Access to family health teams is absolutely critical. I look forward to being in Yukon and announcing the bilateral agreement and the aging with dignity agreement for Yukon. It is essential. You see it in the B.C. agreement. It provides support to work collaboratively to make that happen. The B.C. agreement also has very critical pieces to help first nations communities at a community level and to build community resilience.

I think one advantage of the bilateral agreements is how they look at the problems that are unique and specific to every province and territory, and then work with them to give them flexibility to create the solutions they need to the challenges within their jurisdictions.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much.

One of the other areas in the mandate letter is the promotion of healthy eating by advancing the healthy eating strategy.

I recently met with officials, including Dr. Warshawski, whom you may know from Kelowna, B.C. He is involved in the stop marketing to children initiative, where there are certainly concerns about how we're doing with the draft regulations.

I wonder whether you could elaborate on where we are in the regulations to stop marketing to kids and what aspects we need to get in order to make sure it's a very robust strategy when it comes to fruition.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you for that question.

You're absolutely right. We have to look down the stream in order to transform our health system. It isn't just about the changes we can make today. It's about making sure we stop folks from getting sick, generally. I'm deeply concerned that childhood nutrition and challenges with childhood nutrition are leading to a tsunami of chronic disease and illness. We're seeing diabetes in children. We have to turn that around.

I'm deeply concerned about the advertising targeting children and leading them not only to nutritionally vacant products but also to products, tied to marketing, that are injurious to their health. That's why I want to commend our colleague Patricia Lattanzio for her PMB. It was something I advocated for in my time at Heart and Stroke. It's now working its way through the Senate. We want to see the regulations in place by spring 2024.

I also want to take a minute to talk about front-of-pack labelling and how important that is. That's going to come into force in 2026. There's still a lot more work to do. Canada's food guide was another major milestone in our action on nutrition. We need to be focused on that space. We don't talk enough about nutrition. We talk about physical activity. If we're going to transform people's health and avoid the worst outcomes, healthy eating is critical. Of chronic disease and illness, whether it's heart disease, cancer or stroke—you name it—about 70% is preventable. We can stop people from ever getting sick in the first place.

We have to be up that stream. Not only is it a matter of saving lives, but it will also realize exceptional cost savings. When we see the cuts the Conservatives are talking about in preventative medicine.... That's what the realization will be: more cost, more sickness and more problems. We can't allow that to happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Dr. Hanley.

Mr. Thériault, go ahead for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Minister, have you ever seen a federal government defeated in an election because of its position on health?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Recently there was an election in Manitoba that was certainly related to health issues—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I'm talking about a federal government.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

At the federal level—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

The answer is no, as you do not have the same responsibility as the provincial premiers in terms of health and health care delivery. In Quebec, I have seen a number of governments defeated on health issues since the 1980s, as health is an election issue in Quebec.

I don't think you want that responsibility, and I'll tell you why. You say that we do not need an independent public inquiry into what happened during the pandemic and that you will resolve the issue, but it is possible that your government will be defeated because of its failures during the pandemic, since it was its responsibility to manage that crisis.

If an independent public inquiry is not needed, why was the national emergency strategic stockpile empty? Why was the Global Public Health Intelligence Network inoperative? Why were the stocks expired? Why did you send personal protective equipment to China more or less three weeks before Quebec declared a public health emergency?