Health Committee on Nov. 1st, 2023

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

To me, the goal is to create a spirit of cooperation, to find out how we can work together, particularly on the data side, for example. It is essential that the provinces share the information. It is also important that the federal government give money and ensure that our public system is protected, in accordance with its responsibility under the Canada Health Act. Canada has that responsibility. It is relevant to say that it is entirely possible for a federal election to be decided on health issues.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

So you're saying that, if a province's performance goes down, you will take political responsibility; then we can tell you that your plan was bad, and you will accept that that province, ultimately, cannot respect the decisions, standards and conditions that you decided to impose because you have been ineffective at controlling those conditions.

Is that what you are telling me today, when, constitutionally, we do not have the same responsibility at the federal and provincial levels?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

No, that's not the case at all. The data is not for me or the federal government. The data is for Quebeckers. It is for Canadians. It will enable taxpayers to see the progress of their health care system. That is essential. If the government gives money, it must be possible to see the increase and improvement—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

In Quebec, that is settled during an election, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Thank you, Minister.

Next is Mr. Davies, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, Canada's patented drug price regulator, the PMPRB, recently announced plans to relaunch consultations on long-delayed reforms—I think they started in 2016—meant to save Canadians billions of dollars on the costs of medications.

As I'm sure you're aware, last year these reforms were derailed by your predecessor, Minister Duclos, who was accused of undermining the arm's-length agency's independence by asking it to suspend the reforms at the request of big pharma. That was the accusation. This led to a series of high-profile resignations at the regulator.

Minister, can you confirm when these reforms will finally come into full effect?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

As you acknowledged and I think is very important, there's an arm's-length relationship that is present.

We've made sure that the board is populated. It has an incredibly important mandate. I look forward to working with them, in that arm's-length way, to take action in this space, and I welcome their advice and their co-operation as we work together.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Going back to the breast screening guidelines, in May 2023, before the expedited review of those guidelines had even started, Dr. Guylène Thériault, a member of the Canadian task force, told the Toronto Star that “she does not see any reason to change the guidelines”.

In addition, the task force working group has reportedly started to vote upon recommendations, even though the evidence review is incomplete.

Can you assure us, Minister, that you will act to ensure that any bias in the task force on the breast screening guidelines is effectively removed, so that Canadian women can get the best evidence available and the best breast screening guidelines that they can?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I think it's fair to say that we are absolutely committed to making sure that the breast screening guidelines are as strong as possible and that they protect women across this country.

I share your concern in this area and look forward to working with you towards that objective.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Quickly, I don't know whether you've had a chance to review this, but it seems that the gold standard is to recommend mammograms for women between ages 40 and 49. Is that something you're prepared to move towards on a national basis?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Again, I can commit to having a continued conversation and for us to continue to look at this.

I think we share the top-line objective. How we get to that can be a continued conversation.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

Colleagues, we have about five minutes left in this hour, which is probably enough time to turn the witnesses around but not enough time for two more rounds.

Mr. Morrice indicated that he wants to ask a question. He would require unanimous consent, and I know already that it isn't there.

What I'm inclined to do is to thank this panel, get the next one set up and start anew.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

We have four minutes left. Can't we do...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Do you want to do two minutes each?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Yes, sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Okay. It's two minutes for the Conservatives and two minutes for the Liberals.

Mr. Doherty, you have two minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chair, I wouldn't agree to that.

We just completed a full round. Were you to proceed with that, it would leave the Bloc Québécois and the NDP without a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Actually, Mr. Davies, we haven't completed a full round. A full round would be another five minutes for the Liberals and another five minutes for the Conservatives, but we don't have that much time, so they've agreed to cut their time. A full round would be a full five-minute turn for each of them.

We have Mr. Doherty for two minutes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Minister, you've indicated that you intend to have a national single-payer pharmacare program established by the end of the year. How much is this program going to cost Canadians?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

No, what I've said is that taking action in the space of drugs—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

How much?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

You're saying something that I haven't done.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Okay, so how much would that be? Have you done the work to...? How much would it cost—

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

I couldn't say. It's not something I've committed to. It's not something I've said, so you're asking me about something I haven't said or committed to.