Health Committee on Nov. 1st, 2023

[Stephen Lucas, Deputy Minister, Department of Health]

The total number since 2016 to March 2023 is approximately 36,000.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

That's not the question I asked. I appreciate your response. I'm asking the minister if she knows how many deaths have happened. I think the answer is no.

How about how many deaths have occurred in the last year?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

The number of total apparent opioid toxicity deaths in 2022, which is what we have the last total numbers for on an annual basis, was 7,483, with an average of 21 a day.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

We started at 2,800 in 2016 when this government, the NDP-Liberals, moved policy from justice to health, and now we have nearly 8,000—over 8,000—in the last year.

Are you aware what impact the safe supply policy has had on the informal market for opioids?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I know that there are articles of anecdotal discussions on what is out there in terms of safer supply, but safer supply as it is currently distributed is under a prescription model.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

There's a 95% reduction in prices because of how government drugs have flooded the black markets. In Leslieville, your taxpayer-funded safe injection sites are offering up chocolate bars to kids for used needles, and your government announced $4.6 million—

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

Thank you. I'm very well aware that the Conservatives don't let facts get in the way of a good social media clip, but I would ask that the member please show respect to the minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Go ahead, Mr. Majumdar.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

I'll respond to that another time, because I have nothing but the highest respect for the minister. I'm just trying to get a sense of whether she knows her files.

Your government has earmarked another $4.6 million for streamlining authorizations for supervised consumption sites. How many more Leslievilles do you plan on building across Canada?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

It's based on an application basis to Health Canada for safe consumption sites to be implemented. They have to meet a stringent set of guidelines and evaluations before opening. They also have to be able to show, in addition to federal funding, that they are able to continue—

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

There's an ambition to open up more of these safe injection sites.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

We believe that harm reduction is a key component in our policy strategy to address substance use and the opioid crisis.

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Minister, if harm to Canadians has gone up to such an exponential, out-of-control crisis, where the government is providing safe supply to a black market that is reducing the price and making these drugs more accessible to children, there are going to be more of these sites near schools across Canada.

Not knowing all the facts, how can you even sit at the table and support this unsafe supply legislation, this culture of death with MAID, if you don't know the scale of the crisis?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I would first say to the member that he is throwing a lot of different pieces into the pot rather than looking at the drug strategy and policy that we put forward. The four key principles that we have in attacking and addressing the toxic drug supply in this country, as well as the overdose crisis incorporates prevention, harm reduction, treatment and enforcement, which means that we have both a public safety lens and a public health lens.

Diversion is illegal and continues to be illegal, whether it is for prescription drugs—

[Shuv Majumdar, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Minister, the principle is—

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Chair, I'd like to be able to finish my answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Please finish it quickly. We're out of time.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Diversion is illegal and continues to be illegal and enforced.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Next we're going to go to Mr. Jowhari, please, for five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing my time with MP Morrice.

Minister, welcome to our committee. It's good to see you in this profile and portfolio.

Minister, you talked about the launch of 988 in your opening remarks. As you know, we are almost a month away from the launch. First of all, congratulations. Can you talk about some of the work that's been done to ensure that we are ready for this launch?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I want to thank the member for his question, and I'd also like to thank Member Doherty for his work on getting us to the 988 number because these are the things that we can work on. Like I said in my opening remarks, there's a collective desire at this table to help those who are struggling with mental health. This is when good work gets done across the floor, and I'm very proud of that.

As you well know, 988 was embarked upon with the motion two years ago. It takes time to build out a national network. We had the United States to look at. It took four years, actually, for them to roll out their national three-digit number. Also, we had a lot of lessons that we learned from them in going forward. We are now working with CAMH to make sure that sufficient organizations are hooked up into the system across the country. It won't be only by calling. It will be both call and text in both official languages. So far, the provinces and territories are gearing up, and the funding has also gone out to make sure that organizations are well supported with the launch.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

I'll ask a very short follow-up on that.

In your assessment—aside from the technology side, the network side and the strong partnership that's been with the organization—do you feel that we are ready to be able to support those who need help, especially the youth, as of November 30?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I would say that, first, the work of PHAC on this has been tremendous. We have Nancy Hamzawi and Heather Jeffrey here, who have been in close contact with my office on the progress that's been made. Not only are we ready but we have to be ready because our youth need us to be ready.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Mr. Morrice, this is the moment you've been waiting for. You have two and a half minutes.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Jowhari.

Minister, I really appreciate your framing the poisoned drug crisis as one of public health. In my community alone this year to date, we've lost 74 community members to poisoned drugs. Each one is a preventable death, as you know.

My concern is that recommendations from Health Canada's expert task force on substance use from 2021—like ending criminal penalties related to simple possession and expunging criminal records from previous offences related to simple possession—haven't been acted on. In fact, they were in Mr. Johns' Bill C-216, so they were actively voted down by our Parliament.

Deaths go up, and it allows others to then demonize programs that do work—like safe supply, for example.

I wonder if this has you at all reconsidering the governing party's position on what was already recommended by the expert task force from 2021.