Health Committee on March 10th, 2026

[Bettina Hamelin]

Let's not go backwards. Let's look forward and find solutions together.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

We need to understand the past in order to move forward, Ms. Hamelin.

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Okay. That's the end of that round.

We have Mr. Strauss for five minutes.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Watson, I have a couple of final questions.

Are you aware if any of the opioid products you manufacture are currently accessible through vending machines in Canada?

[Jeff Watson]

I'm not aware.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Would you be able to table that with the committee in written form?

[Jeff Watson]

Yes, I can come back to you with that.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Would you be able to tell us in general how much revenue is generated from opioids in vending machines?

[Jeff Watson]

I couldn't tell you that.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Okay.

Dr. Somers, I'm still terribly alarmed by this story of your being ordered by the B.C. government to destroy data. Who ordered you to destroy the data, and why do you imagine that they ordered you to destroy your data?

[Julian M. Somers]

The order came precisely one week after I delivered a briefing to provincial deputy ministers. I was told directly by one of those ministers in that meeting afterwards that my remarks had angered him and some of his colleagues, because I implied that the provincial government was not optimally handling the so-called addiction and homelessness file. I was surprised by his remarks, but I could understand in hindsight why he might have reached that conclusion. I thought after our years of working together that he wouldn't be so easily offended, but that was the explanation.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

To my understanding, you're a full professor at a Canadian university. You did this research study for 20 years. You gathered the data. You published the data as randomized control trials. This seems like an incredible departure from normal scientific practice, to have published data being destroyed. Do you have any comment on that?

[Julian M. Somers]

Well, there's no question it's an extraordinarily heavy-handed tactic by a government. It definitely caught me by surprise, and it amounts to significant overreach.

The research in question included randomized trials, data collected with individuals' consent and pharmaceutical comparisons.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Knowing that you benefit from parliamentary privilege, can you say the name of the person who ordered you to destroy this data?

[Julian M. Somers]

Mark Sieben was the deputy—

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I have a point of order, Chair.

It might surprise you that I am very interested in this testimony, but again, it has nothing to do with pharmaceutical sovereignty. Could the member please at least pretend to link his questions to pharmaceutical sovereignty?

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, I would point out that more Canadians died from opioid overdoses in the last few years than in the entirety of World War II. I think this goes directly to our sovereignty.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Let's do a study on that, then.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

This is about pharmaceuticals and it's about sovereignty. I don't know how it could be more clearly in the wheelhouse.

[John-Paul Danko, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

I know the chair is not going to put this committee in order, but at least just pretend.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Dr. Somers, benefiting from parliamentary privilege, could you please say the name of the person who ordered you to destroy the data?

[Julian M. Somers]

Yes. The letter was signed by an executive director named Leigh Greiner, and her supervisor who called me was deputy Mark Sieben.

I think these matters actually are directly related to sovereignty in the sense of Canadians being able to exercise due control over the ways that pharmaceuticals are dispensed and knowledge about their effectiveness. First, on the one hand, that's internal. Second are the points I raised about the absence of a need to disclose funding provided to clinicians, universities and others, which is a distorting influence that signifies, to me, an external threat to Canada's sovereignty.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Yes. May I say that I absolutely agree with you that if multinational pharmaceutical companies are using big bags of cash to determine British Columbia's anti-scientific policies on this file, then that absolutely speaks to our sovereignty.

Thank you for your bravery in speaking with us about it now.

You said something interesting about not believing there's evidence for the pharma-first strategy that has been employed nationally. Do you include non-opioid pharmaceuticals like gabapentin for alcohol use disorder or buprenorphine like Sublocade for alcohol and opioid abuse in that assessment, or are you speaking mainly of opioids?

[Julian M. Somers]

I was speaking predominantly of opioids and also stimulants, the major classes of drugs. In relation to [Inaudible—Editor]—

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

We're really pressed for time, so I just want to say this. When you have this story of a violation of your academic freedom and open scientific inquiry and the destruction of data, do you think that this problem of government officials maybe not heeding the best scientific evidence available is part of what has caused an entire national obsession with this idea of safe supply for the last 10 years?