Health Committee on April 15th, 2026

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

She was speaking at the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Anybody could move whether they were speaking or not, Mr. Mazier. What are you challenging here?

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

We are challenging the chair on that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

On what?

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

I'm challenging the chair, because I believe the order was Ms. Chi and then Ms. Konanz.

I challenge the chair's decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

What you believe is not at issue here. The clerk of this committee took names down in the order in which she saw them. I did not see her order. I just saw Ms. Chi and Ms. Konanz.

The clerk is saying that, according to protocol, the first hand up was Ms. Sidhu's. Are you challenging the clerk?

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

I'm challenging the chair's decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

The chair is going according to the clerk's observation, because at the beginning of each meeting I say that the chair and the clerk work together to look at the hands up in order, and we try to do this as reasonably as we can.

Ms. Sidhu, continue.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you Madam Chair.

I was talking about the new motion moved by Dan Mazier. I do want to spend some time on this motion, because I think paragraph (i) of the motion carries more weight than it might initially appear. The more closely I review it, the more concerns I have.

Let me be clear. Our government supports transparency. That has been consistent, and it has guided the work of Health Canada and organizations like Canada Health Infoway, but transparency needs to be approached carefully. It must be balanced with privacy considerations, legal responsibilities and the integrity of the system Canadians depend on every day.

In my view, this motion does not strike the balance, Madam Chair.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Yes, Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Riding Mountain, MB]

We just reviewed the video. You did agree. You have the ultimate authority. You did say it was Ms. Chi and then that Ms. Konanz was coming back, so you did say that. That was your ruling, and I challenge that decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

It was not a ruling, Mr. Mazier. As I explained earlier on, before every meeting, I read out very carefully—and I can read it out to you again—that the clerk and the chair work together to recognize hands that are up. The clerk put Ms. Sidhu down first on the list. I had not seen it. I had just seen Ms. Chi and Ms. Konanz.

Now, you want to challenge the clerk of the committee, which I have never heard of before, but you can do it. I take the clerk's word for it, and I said Ms. Chi's and Ms. Konanz's names, because that's who I saw. The clerk then pointed out to me that Ms. Sidhu had her hand up first, and I am going with the clerk's recommendation, because I have to trust the clerk—

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

We have to trust the clerk.

If you let me finish speaking before you interrupt me, I might then be able to answer what you're going to ask about in the point of order.

I'm telling you that I am accepting the clerk's recommendation, and I took responsibility for saying I did not see Ms. Sidhu's name written down by the clerk, so I only said what I saw, which is that Ms. Chi and Ms. Konanz were the next two speakers.

The clerk is telling me Ms. Sidhu's hand was up, and I'm going by what the clerk says, because that's who the chair has to depend on for recognizing people if she sees a hand up before I do, and that's what I'm doing.

I am not going to challenge the clerk on this.

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I will say, Chair, that at the time that Ms. Chi was speaking, you allowed her to suspend the meeting. At that point, why did neither you nor the clerk decide that she was out of order at that point?

Then we suspended the meeting for 10 minutes after you said that I would be speaking second, then you suspended the meeting, and Ms. Chi was first.

We do have it on video.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I've explained to you that I did not see Ms. Sidhu, but I may tell you that anybody could have raised their hand and asked to suspend the meeting while Ms. Chi was speaking. You don't have to have the floor to call for suspension. Anyone can call for suspension, so it didn't depend on Ms. Chi being the speaker. Anybody could have done that. You could have, Mr. Mazier could have, Mr. Blanchette-Joncas could have. It could have been anybody.

The call for suspension is taken by anyone. It was called. Ms. Chi called it, even though I then realized that Ms. Chi was not up there. There you go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

That's what's in Hansard, and I take responsibility for not having seen Ms. Sidhu's name written down—

[Helena Konanz, Conservative, Similkameen—South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

—and for making that error. Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you. I don't intend to challenge the clerk at all, because she keeps her eye on everything in an impartial manner, even though you think I may not be impartial. I try very hard to be impartial.

Do you have a point of order on this issue?

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

Madam Chair, I would simply like us to listen to the video recording of today’s meeting. At 5:10:20 p.m., the speaking order is confirmed.

[Video presentation]

It would therefore be Ms. Chi’s turn, followed by Mrs. Konanz.

[Maggie Chi, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

You’re right, it should be Ms. Chi and Mrs. Konanz.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Mr. Blanchette-Joncas, I don't know if you were listening to me. I said that those were the hands I saw. The clerk had seen Ms. Sidhu; she'd written her name down, and I had not seen it. I took responsibility for not having seen that.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski—La Matapédia, QC]

No.