Health Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

In the Global News report, it says that the vaccine program company that was contracted by PHAC took $50 million that was supposed to go to harmed individuals. They kept $36 million and just the scraps went to vaccine-injured individuals. Meanwhile there were reports that they were watching Netflix at the office or playing ping-pong; they were drinking. It sounds to me like these guys are swindlers. I was really dismayed to hear that they are still processing these claims from patients who've waited years.

Why don't you terminate the contract right now?

[Nancy Hamzawi]

Thank you very much for the question.

We are very much looking forward to the conclusion of the audit to inform us on appropriate actions we can take with respect to the legal agreement we have in place with Oxaro.

[Matt Strauss, Conservative, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I'm sorry not to have heard an answer. I would like to see that contract terminated immediately.

The other question is this. We're all here talking about it because Global News did this investigative report, but why doesn't PHAC monitor these programs while they are under way? Why did it take an intrepid reporter to find out, please?

[Nancy Hamzawi]

Thank you very much for the question.

We have been monitoring this program. An evaluation was concluded back in April. An international review of best practices in terms of vaccine injury programs has also been concluded to help inform the next steps with respect to the program.

A number of actions have been taken by the agency to monitor the progress and to inform the way forward, always reflecting the key design elements of the program—an open and transparent claims process, rigorous causality assessment, efficient administration of financial support payments to beneficiaries and the availability of an appeals process to the decisions that are made.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Okay. Unfortunately—

[Nancy Hamzawi]

A number of interim measures have been taken including a decision by the minister to move the program into the agency. We are working very hard on this within the agency but also tapping expertise across the federal government to make sure we have the best possible program moving forward. On issues that are raised with us by claimants, we are working directly with Oxaro to make sure they address the very important issues that claimants are raising with us.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Thank you.

Now we have Mr. Eyolfson.

You have five minutes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There was a reference made before on the distribution of needles at the supervised consumption site. Are these needles given out to people to use in the community, or are these not used and disposed of on site?

[Kendal Weber]

Thank you for the question.

The supervised consumption sites and also health and community centres do provide sterile equipment such as syringes and needles. They can be used on site for the substances they bring with them. Some may leave with them. In those cases, it's encouraged that safe disposal does take place. If there is disposal outside the site, the sites work very closely with community groups and with their own employees to do safe pickup. Also, municipalities have programs in place for safe pickup of discarded substance use equipment.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

All right. Thank you.

Do you know how much any one given safe consumption site might actually spend on supplying these safe needles? Do you have any sort of ballpark figure as to what they would cost?

[Kendal Weber]

No, I don't have a ballpark figure. For the supervised consumption sites, the organizations come in and seek an exemption for the possession and the use of the substances in their locations. We do get a sense of how much it costs to run the actual site, but the needles and the distribution are separate programs. Funding is provided by the community, by the municipality, by the province. The needle distribution programs are separate from supervised consumption sites in that they have different sources of funding, but they are often done in a site or in a community health centre.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

Thank you.

Now, again, is this all ballpark as to how much one of these sites would cost per year to run?

[Kendal Weber]

I don't have that with me.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

All right.

I've been looking up some treatments. We do know—this is established—that this provision of clean needles does prevent blood-borne diseases. When someone is infected with HIV, the cost to our health care system for this patient is between $15,000 to $25,000 a year. One case of hepatitis B can cost $60,000 a year. Hepatitis C costs about $84,000 for a 12-week treatment. We're not spending large numbers of that multiplied by that on these programs.

I guess what I'm getting at is this. Would you not be saving more than you're spending on these programs just in health care savings on the treatment costs for these diseases you're preventing?

[Kendal Weber]

Thanks for the question.

Health Canada doesn't fund the projects. They are funded by health care systems for that exact same reason: They see harm reduction as a tool to prevent infectious disease and death. When we do not have harm reduction tools in those facilities, the numbers that have been quoted for the harms and costs associated with disease and death are significant.

Health Canada doesn't fund supervised consumption sites. It is the community, province or territory through the health care system budget.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

All right. Thank you.

The issue of crack pipes came up. A lot of eyebrows were raised about that.

Correct my memory. This is something I read a few years ago now. Was that program not started because of an outbreak of invasive streptococcus pneumoniae among certain vulnerable populations inhaling drugs?

[Kendal Weber]

Thank you for the question.

That could be the case or the source. You're right. It's one of the reasons. Harm reduction tools are used to prevent such an outbreak.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Mr. Eyolfson—

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

I still have 40 seconds.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

Okay.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

Thank you.

We've talked about certain programs in the past, like decriminalization or other things like that.

Would you not agree that data changes over time? What seems like a good plan.... It's a bit of a leading question because I know that much of what I was taught in medical school 30 years ago is now obsolete. Do we not make these decisions because the available data at the time suggests that this is the best policy?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

You're out of time.

You can table those comments, Ms. Weber.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

A number of speakers have been allowed to answer the question even once the time was up.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Dan Mazier]

I know. That's the problem. We all have meetings to go to.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Winnipeg West, MB]

I understand that, but you've allowed a number of other witnesses, if the speaker asked the question within their time, to answer.