Human Resources Committee on Oct. 24th, 2006

[Patricia LeBlanc]

We do see it as a major obstacle to employment, because a lot of times they're thinking about what they can't do, not what they can do. You might be a perfectly good bookkeeper, but you might not be able to run upstairs and get a cup of coffee.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I guess what I'm looking for—and I don't have any time left—is what kind of programming would you see to overcome that or to create more awareness?

[Patricia LeBlanc]

Probably workshops for small business employers and government people who do human resources, and research divisions, and just by creating awareness of what women with disabilities can do. Maybe some women with disabilities who are already employed can even be guest speakers, or participate as well, and answer some of the questions for small businessmen and small business employers.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, and that's all the time we have, Mr. Regan. Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Lessard, for seven minutes, please.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Mr.Chairman. First of all, I would like to thank you for being here this morning. We see your contribution as essential and, as I said to the other groups, necessary to make the government aware of the problems you face.

I will address Ms. Childs first. You said that workplace training was the way of the future in the issue of employability.

May I hear a little more about that from you?

[Leslie Childs]

It seems that employers are faced with global competition. One thing they are doing is subscribing to more and more severe levels of standards, things like the reduction of hazardous waste or hazardous substances, and ISO standards, and things like that. They realize that if they are going to be competitive, the people in their workplaces need to be able to read and write and handle math, and those kinds of things, so they can conform to those standards. At the moment, they are finding, because of low literacy levels, workers who cannot do anything more than the jobs for which they were hired; they cannot do any cross-training, and their ability to produce a flawless product is severely impacted by that. So anybody who wants to work in the global economy seems to be beginning to understand that the solution to the problem is to train in-house, and to train specifically for the needs of their organization. So I think they see it coming.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Let’s take as an example the people who promote and support workplace training. I am thinking of the people from the Adult Literacy Database, among others, who told us earlier that there is not only an expectation in that regard but also a supply issue, because we are talking about a database, downloading programs and content, etc. That is what I understood. We are also told to be concerned about the federal contribution to support those programs and we are encouraged to transfer the funds to the provinces.

I would like to hear a little more from you on that subject. Is it because of considerations of effectiveness or confidence in the federal government’s capacity or willingness to support you that you make that recommendation? I think it was Mr. Ramsey who made that statement.

[Sue Folinsbee]

I think the transfer of funds is really important, because in Leslie Childs' and my own experience we have seen a need for workplace literacy programs. Some of the money from those funds that was going to be transferred to the provinces would go to workplace literacy programs. Right now, we don't have enough support for them, so this money is particularly important for developing a support system for workplace literacy, for example, in Ontario.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Still along the same line — tell me whether I understand you correctly, because it determines the direction the committee will take — you would like to arrange some kind of partnership with the different levels of government, union organizations and employers’ organizations. There are already existing forms of partnership. One of the partnerships was the Labour-Management Partnership Program, which has also just had a taste of the medicine of budget cuts. The means already exist.

Can you tell us how you see that partnership and its dynamics?

[Margan Dawson, Executive Director, Association of Workplace Educators of Nova Scotia (AWENS)]

I can see using the model that exists in Nova Scotia now. It's a very strong partnership model that brings the three parties together--government, business, and labour. That pretty much drives what happens in our province.

It's strong because it brings all the partners to the table, so whatever is delivered is extremely effective. It can be measured. What we've done is we have a gap. We can measure very quickly in terms of the success through anecdotes. What we don't measure and what needs to be measured is the impact on the business itself. Do you increase productivity by 1% because of this or decrease your error rates? What is the return on investment? That's something a partnership can create; it simply needs that voice. It's about recognizing the value.

Here in Nova Scotia we have this phenomenal partnership model. It's worked. It's been in place for sixteen years, and the funding is minimal. It's an employer contribution, it's a provincial contribution, and I may add that the federal government also contributes through the Canada/Nova Scotia Cooperation Agreement on Economic Diversification. We've also received funding through the National Literacy Secretariat. Pieces already exist, so let's take what is obviously highly successful, build on that, and make that a national strategy. A lot of the components are in place. We just need to take them and use them elsewhere--build it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Ramsey, do you want to add to that? We have about thirty seconds left.

[Charles Ramsey]

Yes. The report that was put out by an earlier version of this committee calls for a pan-Canadian strategy, and we in the literacy community ask for that because we feel that notwithstanding the fact that some excellent things are going on in various parts of this country, it needs to be standardized across the country. The federal government is in a position to show some leadership and bring people to the table, so the models that are used in one part of the country can be spread to other jurisdictions as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Lessard.

That's all the time we have. For the sake of the researchers, I just want to clarify a recommendation. Did the strategy you're talking about come out of the original pan-Canadian strategy or recommendation, as Mr. Ramsey said? Is this a different strategy that revolves around literacy in the province of Nova Scotia that you don't believe is duplicated in any other province at this point?

[Margan Dawson]

This particular model is not duplicated. There are variations of it in Manitoba and Alberta.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay, but this relates specifically to literacy?

[Margan Dawson]

Workplace literacy and essential skills.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Do you have a copy you could provide to the committee that could be part of our recommendations as we move forward, just to clarify that? There are lots of partnerships and strategies out there. We want to make sure we're talking about the one you're talking about.

[Margan Dawson]

We have a briefing, which will be translated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

It will be in the brief.

[Margan Dawson]

You'll have that information in the briefing, and there's an appendix, an attachment that describes workplace education, the initiative itself, the partnerships that exist currently.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's great--as long as we have that.

Thank you very much, Ms. Dawson.

We'll move to Madame Savoie.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, and I'll allow you more time to elaborate, because many questions have come up, but I'll start with literacy. Of all the cuts, this one was the most puzzling and seems to work at cross-purposes with what we want to achieve as a national goal, not just for individuals but in building a more cohesive society and a more productive one; hence the confusion.

I want to go back to the point that Mr. Lessard raised about workplace literacy, or learning, being the way of the future. In one of the studies--and I'm not sure if we're talking about the same one, so I appreciated the chair's efforts to clarify. Madam Bradshaw conducted a study, and there were some recommendations around the need for a pan-Canadian strategy around lifelong learning, and literacy specifically. I wondered whether that's what you were talking about, because it seemed to go beyond workplace learning--and I agree on the importance of workplace learning opportunities and partnerships. But for all those people who are unemployed and wouldn't be captured in that situation, I see the need for community partnerships as well, where basic literacy learning can also occur. I wondered if you'd comment on that, because workplace literacy seems to address the needs of workers who need to continue their learning, and perhaps even basic learning, but it leaves behind a whole other group.

I wonder if you have any comments, Mr. Ramsey, and then we'll go down the table.

[Charles Ramsey]

In the briefs we've submitted and in the presentation we made this morning, we used the term “workforce literacy”. Workforce literacy captures all of those people who are not part of the workforce or able to get into the workplace.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Okay. There is a big difference there. Thank you.