Evidence of meeting #31 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cuts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
October 31st, 2006 / 12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to give the rest of my time to Mr. Regan.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Minister, when Canadians hear the phrase “value for money”, they think now of the cuts that you've announced to literacy programs, youth employment, and so forth. You've been asked in the House of Commons numerous times whether the supporting communities partnership initiative for homeless people will be extended beyond 2007. Your response has always been to talk about value for money. Is that code for notice that it will be cut?
Can you commit here today that this program will continue after March 31, 2007? I would like a simple yes or no. I don't have much time. I have another one I'd like to ask.
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
What I have said repeatedly in the House, and every time I've been asked this question, is that for seven years there have been no changes to this program. We want to make sure it is the best it can be. We extended it in the early days. We've added $37 million to it. We recognized there may be a need. And going forward--
Conservative
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
In due course, you're going to decide. You're not going to tell us now. Okay.
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
--we can provide a program that's at least as good a quality--
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
I'm surprised you wouldn't want us to look for better options.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Mr. Chairman, it's a good program, and it's important that it continue.
This is the last question. You talk about value for money all the time. But according to your own expense report, you spent $2,222.56 of taxpayers' money, and your press secretary claimed more than $1,100, to travel to Winnipeg to present what your own office called a “symbolic cheque” for $100 to a Winnipeg family.
In your view, first of all, was that value for money? Secondly, could you see how Canadian taxpayers might view that as wasteful and hypocritical?
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
We wanted to make sure that the universal child care benefit was well known so that all Canadians who were eligible would apply for it. We have the choice. We can do that through earned media, or we can do that through bought media. Quite frankly, $3,000 doesn't buy you much air time. We did raise awareness considerably about this program, because it made the national news. As a result, a lot of people applied for this program. We were able to very effectively and very cost-effectively reach a lot of parents who might not otherwise have applied to this program.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Sorry, Mr. Lessard, that was my mistake. It's back to Ms. Yelich. I was getting ahead of myself here. It's still five minutes for you, though. You'll be up next.
Conservative
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to say that you have a huge job and that you are doing a very fine job. It's a large department. It's challenging, and after consolidation it is more so. Given what's happening in both the economic and labour areas today, I think you have done a lot of hard work. So I would like to congratulate you.
I want to talk a little bit about post-secondary education. We find that the Liberals forget that sometimes they can be quoted as well. Their own competitiveness critic, Belinda Stronach, once stated that under the Liberal government, post-secondary education was “the poor second cousin in public policy, and the country will pay a price for that lack of vision”. Ms. Stronach went on to note that abandoning education was “a reflection of Liberal priorities”, though, as Ms. Stronach has admitted, the Liberals didn't set the bar high after 13 long years in power.
I was wondering, Minister, could you please speak to our government's commitment to assisting post-secondary students?
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
It's actually worse than you acknowledged. In fact, the previous government cut $4 billion out of post-secondary education. Quite frankly, I think that's grossly unacceptable.
In line with our strategy for developing a workforce that is skilled and responsive to the changing needs of the labour market, that's why we are investing in people. In fact, during budget 2006 we made $1 billion available to colleges and universities across the country for infrastructure. We made scholarships and bursaries exempt from federal tax for students. I mean, they earn the money, let them spend it on education. We made Canada student loans more accessible for more Canadians. As well, we provided a textbook tax credit for all post-secondary students.
There's an aspect of post-secondary education that too often gets ignored, particularly when I am asked questions by the opposition. And that is the whole issue of the skilled trades and apprenticeships. As I outlined earlier, we have a number of programs we've brought in: the apprenticeship incentive grant, the employers apprenticeship incentive tax credit, and the tools for tax deduction. All these things are to help Canadians, particularly young Canadians, get a start and have better access to post-secondary education. Going forward, people are going to need a much higher level of education to get started. Then, over the course of their lifetime, they're going to need training and skills upgrading. As they live longer, work longer, and technology changes, they're going to need to change careers, perhaps more than once; they may even want to.
That's where our commitment is. It's in helping people develop the new skills they need to stay in the job search, to advance, and to even change careers if they so choose.
Conservative
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK
Thank you.
I would like to note that I met this morning with representatives from the university, and they applaud you on some of your initiatives, particularly the tax deductions, and not taking income tax deductions on the grants.
I also want you to talk about Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. I believe that you and indeed all Canadians recognize the importance of housing and improving the lives of individuals and families. Could you explain what measures Canada's new government has undertaken to demonstrate its commitment to all Canadians to support access to safe and affordable housing?
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Well, thanks.
We have done quite a bit already, if you consider that the House has only been sitting since April for this new government. We've set up trust funds for $1.4 billion, and that's three trust funds for affordable housing with the provinces, in the north, and also for aboriginal off-reserve housing. And that's on top of the $2 billion a year that CMHC spends to help over 600,000 families in terms of social housing.
We extended the national homelessness initiative. We added $37 million to that because we believe it's important that Canadians have access to housing that is safe and reliable.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Madam Minister, I listened attentively to your answers and have come to the following conclusion. Virtually all of the organizations involved in the affected programs have sent us enquiries. I spoke to you earlier about people who were concerned about adult learning and literacy. There is unanimity on this. Others are concerned about social housing, research into policies, partnerships for social development, youth employment, workplace skills, research and public policies. There are still organizations that can put forward and implement programs. Now you have been telling us this morning that the cuts do not affect programs but organizations.
Madam Minister, are we to understand that the goal of these cuts is to take away from organizations the means at their disposal to propose, implement and evaluate programs within a appropriate structure? I would like to know, for each of these budgets, what has been taken away from the organizations. I must tell you that I am absolutely flabbergasted that I have not been able to obtain these details this morning. As the minister, you are the person with authority in this area and you are the person who took the decision to make these cuts.
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
What I said was that as a program we fund projects. I'll repeat that, we fund projects, not organizations. If I said anything different earlier, then I apologize.
That being said, we want projects that will meet our criteria. They have to be results-oriented. They have to provide value for money. They have to be aligned with our priorities of developing literacy, and as we go forward we will be having criteria evaluations that meet the federal--
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
I apologize if I misunderstood you. However, I wouldn't want you to be allowed to give me an answer that has nothing to do with my question. You have been telling us that it is programs and not organizations that are affected. We were under the impression that it was the organizations. Behind all of the programs, there are organizations. Earlier on, I asked you a question about literacy. I wanted to know what cuts had been made in literacy. You answered that you were not touching the programs but the organizations.
Whether what is involved is literacy, the Summer Career Placements Program or the Supporting Communities Partnership Program, I would like to know what has been affected. Is it programs, organizations or both at the same time? People are waiting. People write me every day about this. I have a whole pile of letters here. One of them is even addressed to the Prime Minister. Another is about the social partnership. Almost every literacy organization has written. People want to know what is happening. They want an answer this morning.
Madam Minister, for more than an hour, we have been asking questions. And yet my colleagues and I still do not have an answer. In your budget there are cuts totalling $152.8 million. What have you cut?
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
The single largest chunk of that $152 million comes from CMHC, and it's simply the savings we'll be realizing because of decreases in the expected inflation and interest rates. There have been no program cuts there whatsoever. So let's set that aside for the moment.
But as I tried to explain earlier—and perhaps I wasn't as effective as I might have been—all eligible organizations right across this country will be invited to submit project proposals, and these will be assessed on the basis of merit, particularly with an emphasis on achieving concrete learning and literacy outcomes.