Human Resources Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2006

[Askin Taner]

I would like to give you a concrete example of the impacts of the cuts.

The AlphaPlus Centre, originally founded as Alpha Ontario, is an organization that deals in four streams: a deaf stream, a native stream, and francophone and anglophone streams. It's a support organization. According to the Government of Ontario, its resource collection is the largest adult literacy resource collection in the world. They are closing their library; they are dismantling their entire collection. They have to apply to the Trillium Foundation to get funding to distribute the collection basically to libraries across the province.

As to the uniqueness of this organization, let's say you're a practitioner in northern Ontario, in a town that just recently experienced a mining operation close-down. In a Toronto program, obviously the needs would be different. You have called the library, and they cater to your needs; they send you the necessary resources.

You're a practitioner; you give them a call; they send you the materials according to your needs. This is a huge loss, and it's real. It has been announced they're closing down by the end of March.

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

So much for the minister's comments of books, books, books, and more books. It sounds like books and fewer books, and fewer resources.

Mr. Williamson, I and I think our side of the House certainly don't disagree with the efficient use of funds, but we believe this is just a cover for having the federal government remove itself from social programs and social issues such as literacy, with the impacts that doing so is going to have on productivity.

I'm wondering—and would like to hear from any of you—whether you believe that re-targeting is needed to better serve people, with the cutting that's going on. We know that literacy funding was inadequate, judging from Claudette Bradshaw's recommendation from the previous government. It was already inadequate—$1 per Canadian per year—and as you pointed out, it wasn't keeping up. So I'm wondering whether “re-targeting” was just jargon for cutting.

Can you re-target with this kind of cutting in areas such as literacy, or Central Mortgage and Housing, and the student placements?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean-Claude D'Amours]

Let's have a short answer, please.

[John Williamson]

I'll take a stab at it. There are numerous examples: $82,000 spent on design of a website for literacy; $34,000 spent on graphic artists for logo development; $211,000 for printing, communications, and travel costs; $110,000 spent on developing and printing ads; a project manager paid $97,000—

[Denise Savoie, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I'll stop you right there if I may. I'm not saying that programs shouldn't be re-evaluated. Does that mean that you cut that money, rather than direct it to programs you think will do a better job towards literacy?

[Askin Taner]

To the best of my knowledge, the federal government has contributed, during the last funding year, $38.5 million to the previous National Literacy Secretariat. Now, with $17.7 million gone, I cannot see how you can redirect and still maintain efficiency and effectiveness. So no, it's not possible.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean-Claude D'Amours]

I'm sorry, but your time is up.

Ms. Brown, I would just like to clarify one point, for my own information.

You mentioned that the call for proposals was supposed to come in January, but that it actually only came in August, and that submissions had to be in several weeks later — in September, before there was any announcement to the effect that funding would not be available.

Did this jeopardize any small groups that did not have the necessary resources to respond to the call for proposals?

[Lesley Brown]

Are you asking whether the delay caused hardships to programs?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean-Claude D'Amours]

No, I mean that the timeframe to prepare the call for proposals does not allow some smaller NGOs to participate. They don't have the resources to process an application in a short time. You'd think that would put some small non-profit organizations in jeopardy. They wouldn't have the chance to apply.

[Lesley Brown]

I don't think so. Traditionally, the literacy field has had only had three weeks to prepare these applications. This year, between August and the September 15 deadline, we actually had more time. The problem is that we never know when these calls are going to come out. They continue to be delayed. So it's hard for organizations to be accountable, to maintain budgets and program planning, when they're not sure when the call will get out or when they'll get approved for funding.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Jean-Claude D'Amours]

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to clarify something right up front. Often we hear, especially in this committee, a lot of political agendas being pursued. But when we have conversations in private, we can see that we believe in the same things, though we may believe in different ways of achieving them. The Conservative government believes that we can achieve higher rates of literacy. We believe that we can achieve lower rates of homelessness and higher rates of employment for workers, both old and young. We believe in support for boys, girls, families, workers, and seniors. Our party simply believes that we can do it better than we have in the past.

We also believe that we need to be better stewards of the dollars Canadians have entrusted us with. I don't think there should be a lot of disagreement on that point. I believe Canadians deserve more credit for their ability to make the right decisions with their money. And our government has made decisions to give Canadians back more of their own money. We're talking about all Canadians: children within families of all kinds, single parents, two-parent families, seniors, workers young and old, and students. We've tried to make decisions that we believe are in the best interests of all Canadians.

I want to thank you all for coming. It's good to hear all opinions. I even appreciate opinions opposed to some of the things we're doing. We can always learn and we can always do better. Of course we can.

I have some specific questions today for each of you. I'd like to know what each of your organizations had cut from your budgets.

[Janis Douglas]

With respect to Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada, we do not know of any specific cuts. We were concerned about some of the summer career placement programs. We're unclear about where the cuts will come and the effect they might have on potential recipients of such programs. We just wanted to say they were valuable. We didn't want to dismiss the idea of targeting. Perhaps corporations would hire students anyway, but there may still be some room for help.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I want to make sure we get through everybody, so just be fairly quick.

[Étienne Huddon-Gagnon]

Our organization was not directly affected, but these cuts mean that there will be 100 fewer jobs for students this summer.

[John Williamson]

We don't accept government money; therefore, we were not worrying.

[Lesley Brown]

The major thing we have lost is family literacy. We've done research and policy development in this important area, and now it's off the table. We will not be able to do anything more around family literacy.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

But how much federal money have you had cut from your budget?

[Lesley Brown]

I can only anticipate. It's all project funding, so nothing is ever for sure. I would say it's about $250,000.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

That's potential money based on—

[Lesley Brown]

Potential money.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

—money that you would submit for projects later on, so you're not 100% sure right now. There's not a specific budget that's been cut for you.

[Lesley Brown]

You can say it's a specific budget, because it's project funding.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Okay.

[Jean-Claude Laporte]

As a coalition, we were not affected in any way, and that is the reason why we feel perfectly comfortable appearing before the Committee. The fact is that we are not here to defend our own organization; we are here to defend people with inadequate housing and the homeless in Quebec and Canada. We also support literacy groups and students seeking employment.

However, when there are cuts or when there is a lack of investment by CMHC, that does affect us. Neither myself nor our coalition directly suffers, but people with inadequate housing or homeless people do. The cuts made to the Summer Career Placement program also affect us. Indeed, many member groups of FRAPRU use Summer Career Placement to give students a chance to gain work experience or help out community organizations, since they are able to work more effectively by having an additional employee during the summer.

I would just like to add that partisanship has nothing whatsoever to do with our position, because whatever government is in office, if budget cuts are made that affect people, we will be there to denounce them.