Evidence of meeting #34 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was trade.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
That's good. I've heard that from some of the people who were in my office, and I think that's an excellent idea.
I don't know if it was Mr. Holmes who talked about red seal modification...maybe Mr. Byrne again. What was the suggestion in terms of modifications to the red seal? Was the comment just that we need to have more trades red sealed? I missed the context.
Business Manager, District Council 38, International Union of Painters and Allied Trades
Number one, I'd like to see more support for the existing red seal. The federal government has the responsibility for overseeing how you achieve red seal status. Unfortunately, I find from province to province to province there isn't quite the same level of commitment from each province to getting people through and getting to their red seal and completing their apprenticeships.
Look no farther than the province right next door, Alberta. They're doing a terrific job over there. Their completion rates are probably amongst the highest in Canada right now. They've got a great apprenticeship program that is in many respects similar to the one we had here before the change in administration. If you ever want to take a look at an apprenticeship program that's working well, look no farther than Alberta. They've got a great program there next door.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
So taking what a province is doing well and trying to replicate that across the country is a possible suggestion.
Business Manager, District Council 38, International Union of Painters and Allied Trades
Absolutely.
Business Manager, International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers - Local 97
Quebec and Alberta are the only two provinces where it's compulsory to be a registered apprentice and/or be a certified journeyman. That's the answer; there's no other.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
And you're looking for leadership from the federal government to strongly encourage the provinces to follow suit.
Business Manager, International Association of Bridge, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers - Local 97
Any job that the federal government puts money towards such as the Golden Ears Bridge, the RAV line, the rapid transit line--there are all kinds of examples. I've talked to numerous labour ministers in the federal government and suggested this over the years, saying you have the hammer, the power to do this; all you have to do is say on those jobs all tradespeople will be either registered apprentices or certified. Then perhaps the provinces might clue in.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Okay. That's great.
I just have one more question for Mr. Chan in terms of pre-settlement services. Once again, I'd like your comments specifically. I know you had some general comments, but do you have any specific recommendations?
Chief Executive Officer, United Chinese Community Enrichment Services Society
In terms of pre-settlement, I believe we need to have two steps before they come here. One is before the people who have potential actually apply. When they put in their applications, we need to, in our consulate area, provide sufficient information and tell them the plan--rather than simply giving them a brochure, tell them--to let them know what steps they have to go through, so they have a general idea. From application to the actual granting of admission takes some time. They can then prepare and use that time to upgrade their skills, be it language or be it trade, whatever is needed, so they know clearly what they need to come through.
Once they get admitted, I believe we have an obligation to then provide, if we can, further information or actually direct training for pre-settlement. Or we can work with the licence-granting organizations to look at how they can get that. Give them a very clear road map. Maybe provide them with assistance, and also hook them up with local employers who are looking for people. I think all those things I mentioned are doable. It's a matter of providing the right funding and the right focus.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Sure. Through HR we have had some programs in the past for training that related either to students or seniors and so on, so you're suggesting that we have them for new immigrants. That makes some sense, and I'm sure it will be in our recommendations.
I know that one of the things.... I understand that the foreign credentials recognition program we're looking at tries to educate people as they come over as to what's available. Certainly that will be one of our recommendations as we move forward.
Ms. Blank, in terms of your organization, and this may be overarching.... I want to tie in to your question and go back to Mr. Chan again.
One of the issues we have in terms of different organizations is that people say they come over here and they have a hard time with the foreign equivalencies. It's actually tougher to deal with some of those than to actually write the board exam for pharmacists, or whatever occupation it is. There seems to be this notion of gatekeeping. I realize that if you get trained to a certain standard here in Canada, you certainly want to make sure that you're maintaining that and that people can't fly in under the radar.
In terms of your organization, Ms. Blank, this is an organizational.... You're asking the federal government to come in and say, listen, we want to bust up this monopoly. What are you asking us to do in terms of your organization as it relates to the hygienists?
President, Canadian Dental Hygienists Association
I'm really asking that dental hygienists be recognized as primary oral health care providers within the scope of their own individual practices, and that the clients we treat be able to access their dental plans and be paid or have their services paid for. An example of that would be the veterans who are able to access dental care.
Really, at the current time, we are licensed to provide services for individuals on a private basis, but we're not able to bill for them. It's only out of social consciousness and the kindness of the dentist's heart that he would allow us to use his billing number so our clients are able to access dental preventative services by a dental hygienist. It's an opening of access to care. So we're not really asking for anything other than to follow suit with the other plans that already recognize us and have that as their service.
Did you want me to speak to foreign trade?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
I'm going to leave that. We'll come back.
I know that Madame Savoie is going to catch a plane, so I'm going to go to her so she has a round. We'll come back to Mr. Regan and then back to Ms. Yelich.
You have five minutes.
NDP
Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you very much for accommodating me. I am short of time this morning, so thank you.
I want to go back to clarify in my own mind the reference to providing credits to increase the credit for the completion of the red seal. You were talking about credits to employers as well. It's not just hiring at the low end, at the unskilled level, but that they keep them on until completion. Is that correct?
Business Manager, District Council 38, International Union of Painters and Allied Trades
I'll tell you what happens sometimes, in my trade, for instance. You might end up working for multiple employers out there. You might have one employer who hires the guy on and gets the credits for that. I don't know really how you structure that. If a guy stays with an employer all the way through his apprenticeship program, it's pretty simple. That employer got him in and got him all the way through the apprenticeship program. At the end of the day, that employer would get the credit. Right? What do you do when you have multiple employers? I don't really know what we would do there.
Business Manager, District Council 38, International Union of Painters and Allied Trades
I was suggesting there's some sort of incentive for the employer. You've done a good job, you're trying to help solve some of the problem of the shortage of skilled workers, and therefore you should benefit from this too--not only the skilled worker.
NDP
Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you. Great.
I want to come back to the tax credit for hiring new Canadians. I can see it could have a perverse effect, an opposite effect, and I wonder if you've thought about that and if you want to comment.
Chief Executive Officer, United Chinese Community Enrichment Services Society
I understand that. Any time we use a blunt instrument like tax to deal with a problem...but we need to start somewhere. If we can do something that allows employers to have some incentive to hire people who need to get local Canadian experience, that's a plus. It doesn't matter what program we put forward, there are always going to be some unintended effects and loopholes. But if we think something is worth doing, and you look at a cost-benefit program, are you better off to leave people who couldn't fully integrate into this country or leave a few dollars so an employee can explore a little bit? Which one is better?
From my perspective, having served so many new Canadians, I believe we should err on the side of the new Canadians and get them jobs.
November 8th, 2006 / 11:35 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, United Chinese Community Enrichment Services Society
Absolutely.
NDP
Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC
Have you further thoughts on that? I wanted to come back quickly to the issue of student loans and speak to an issue and ask a question that concerns students right across the board, and that's the reference to improved student loans.
Two things. One, what kinds of improvements are you suggesting?
On the other, I know from speaking to many students that it has been shown to be inflexible and it needs a real overhaul. I was curious that you mentioned improving loans but made no reference to re-establishing a needs-based grant system to ensure that students don't end their education programs with $24,000 worth of debt, as we hear is the average, and in some cases higher.
So there are those two things.
President, Canadian Dental Hygienists Association
I ran out of time for that part.
President, Canadian Dental Hygienists Association
So it's in your summary of the presentation. We were looking at the impact the elimination of the grant programs in most provinces has had. The suggestion was that the federal government should extend the first-year grants for low-income students to all other years, and in addition the 50% or $3,000 cap on these grants should be replaced with a sliding scale, based on assessment of student and family income and number of family members.