Evidence of meeting #37 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was saskatchewan.
President, Saskatchewan Federation of Labour
No, we haven't done any analysis on the hollowing out of the economy relative to the price of oil. That's certainly not my expertise, and we haven't done any significant analysis of that, but I do think the Alberta economy is being somewhat hollowed out by the high price of oil and the dedication of resources to that sector only.
I just want to comment very briefly on aboriginal employment.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
So you are aware that that has a direct impact on employability, access to employment and keeping people at work.
President, Saskatchewan Federation of Labour
Yes.
On the issue of aboriginal engagement in the workforce and aboriginal training, in Saskatchewan we have two unique institutions: the Saskatchewan Indian Institute of Technologies and the First Nations University of Canada.
We see representatives from the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations and the Métis Nation of Saskatchewan as being integral and key players in the dialogue around making the connections between labour market information and having them at the table as full participants in aboriginal employment development, education and training needs, identification of the work that needs to be done, and accessing that pool of labour, but have them properly trained either through existing regional colleges in Saskatchewan--SIAST, the Saskatchewan Institute of Applied Science and Technology, the Alberta equivalent of which is SAIT or NAIT--and elsewhere, the regional college structure, and our own unique aboriginal institutions of education, the Saskatchewan Indian Institute of Technologies and the First Nations University of Canada.
The capacity is there. We just need to do a better job of identification of the jobs of the future and the workforce of the future and match those two with appropriate education, training, and then placement opportunities, working with business, small and large, with labour, with government, with aboriginal government, and with educational institutions.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thank you very much. That's all the time we have for that.
We're going to move to Mr. Martin for five minutes, please.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
I just want to again say, in terms of the fear that was raised in the Canada Pension Plan and whether it will last, I've been to some meetings, particularly with the Canadian Labour Congress, looking at the Canada Pension Plan. Studies have been done, and the actuaries have come back to say it's a sound program and it will fund itself moving forward, and we shouldn't be spooked by the Fraser Institute or the C.D. Howe Institute into somehow dismantling that or scaring seniors into going back to work because they might not have a pension. I think we have to be more thoughtful about that.
The other thing is employment insurance. Ms. Cousyn has mentioned that perhaps we could use that to help small business by making it more flexible. Again, it's a fund that has been changed radically over the last few years, not because there isn't enough money. We're now, in the calculations that have been made, running in that fund a surplus of over $45 billion that we're not using. Why isn't it being used somewhere?
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Why couldn't we use that money more creatively to help people like yourself and small business?
I want to be the first one today to talk a little bit about Ireland. We heard about it two or three times yesterday, and we may have to go there yet, although we'd probably have to get the government to agree to fund it.
In Ireland, as they looked ahead in the seventies to the possibility of growing an economy and involving everybody, they began to do five-year plans, where they brought everybody around the table. It was huge. The government was there with the resources to support it: organized labour, big business, small business, community groups—everybody. I was in the room, in Dublin, where they did these.
They came up with five-plans. The last one was a plan called a Programme for Prosperity and Fairness. In it, they asked the regions to identify absolutely every organization, small business, and individual in that region needing to be helped to participate. Then they went about doing that, because if they didn't do it and make a plan for everybody—every small business, every individual, every opportunity that was there—they wouldn't get the funding from the central government.
It seems strange to me that at a time when we're looking at the possibility of a really exciting economy that could and should include lots of people—small business, individuals, particularly the poor out there who've been waiting a long time for their chance to participate.... We've just cut $152 million out of the lead ministry; Human Resources and Social Development has lost $152 million.
In your experience so far with what's going on, Ms. Cousyn, you're saying people are leaving Saskatchewan and are heading for Alberta. We were in Alberta, in Calgary, and were being told that it isn't all a land of milk and honey out there, that the cost of living is extraordinary, and that there's lots of homelessness now, more than they've seen in a long time.
You've mentioned some, and perhaps the labour federation could also add to these, but what role do you see government playing in this, given what other jurisdictions have done?
Proprietor, Calories Restaurants
Let me just go back to the aboriginal community and the resource that is there. If we can somehow integrate that community into the workforce better, partnering with them in whatever programs, I think it's Saskatchewan's only hope, frankly. The issue, though, is that there are cultural differences there. We have to do this very sensitively. It's not going to be an easy road.
How can I explain this?
I have to clear my head. I'm not following through on my thought here; it was there and then it's gone. I'm sorry.
NDP
President, Saskatchewan Federation of Labour
I think government plays a key role in facilitating dialogue. When I meet with my chamber of commerce counterpart at the Saskatchewan Labour Force Development Board, we'll acknowledge going into the room that we're not going to agree on all of these things, but at least we can agree on three things. Let's not spend all our time diverted into dealing with issues we don't agree on; let's spend our time dealing with issues we do agree on.
Government can play a role in facilitating that: bringing those partners together, putting in the seed funding to allow it to happen, creating boards and commissions, and working with business and labour on industry-focused things that we agree on. They can play a role there.
On the whole EI thing, part of the reason there's a huge surplus isn't that it's being overcontributed to; it's that in Saskatchewan only 17% of the people who pay into it are eligible to receive. There's a real disconnect between paying into that fund and having some eligibility to get into it. We need to fix that side of it.
Proprietor, Calories Restaurants
I'm sorry, I remembered what my thought was.
It's that I hope we can begin to work better with the resource of the aboriginal community so that our industry, the restaurant and tourism industry—the hospitality industry in general—is not left behind. In general, our industry is not ever perceived as a serious place for workers. It's always seen as a temporary, in-between kind of thing. The focus is always on big business.
I just hope our industry is not forgotten in this. There's a place for the aboriginal workforce in our industry, and I hope there will be programs at the Indian Federated College and at the university level, the aboriginal university, that are directly for the trade, the hospitality industry, either front of the house or back of the house.
As an Individual
You were talking about the Canada Pension Plan, but I wasn't particularly concerned with a lot of the studies that they're coming out with. It was the health care. They keep talking about this huge cost of health care as though it's the seniors who are to blame, so we perhaps should keep them in the workforce to make them pay for that. That's a very worrisome thing.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
And it will make them sicker. Ms. Yelich isn't here, but we hear every day in Ottawa these days that the government is awash in surpluses, in billions of dollars of surplus. So I don't know. There's a bit of a disconnect there too.
Dean's going to cut me off here.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
No. I think part of what we're hearing, Ms. Gunia, is that seniors want the opportunity not to be forced into retirement. They want the opportunity to be able to work longer should they choose, and it's really a matter of choice.
I think your point is well taken, that we should never look at trying to now extend when you can receive pension benefits and all these other things. I think your concern is probably with the slippery slope, and that there should be a way that seniors can earn more money without having clawbacks. You talked about clawbacks. It's a very real issue, and it's an issue in the service industry and every industry, whether you're on a fixed pension or you're on a fixed income, OAS or GIS, or any of these other things. As soon as you work 10, 15, 20 hours, almost every dollar is clawed back dollar for dollar, and I think that's very unacceptable. It's a disincentive to work, and I think that's a challenge.
So what we've heard loud and clear is that seniors should have the opportunity, should they choose, to work, and we're not talking about changing the age....
As an Individual
I'm not really concerned with raising it or lowering it. I could never think about retiring at the age of 50 or 55, but certainly I don't want the age raised up from 65. But it's not only about choosing to work. There are many who are forced to work.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
And certainly that ties into what we've heard in terms of clawbacks, in terms of the inability to have enough pension income or some of those other things that are available.
As an Individual
Taxes are another problem. When you're earning only $11,000 or $12,000 a year, it's very difficult to pay taxes. The tax rate is fairly high, and I think there should be some kind of a ceiling.
I know at one time that was suggested by the NDP. Mr. Layton suggested that those earning $16,000 and under shouldn't be paying taxes. I didn't hear any more about it, but there should be some level. I don't know what the poverty level is right now, $21,000 or $18,000?
As an Individual
Yes, so if you're living that far below the poverty level, how are you expected to be paying all these taxes?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
There's no question about it. I believe, and I think this whole committee believes, that seniors have certainly paid their fair share, and they do continue to pay probably more than they should. I think we all agree on that. I don't think we always agree on the solution, but we certainly agree that seniors have paid their way. They helped build this country, and quite frankly, in their elder years there needs to be more support from government to help sustain them.
Mr. Regan.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
There is some good news, which is that with baby boomers retiring, there will be more seniors, and seniors tend to vote in greater proportions than other people do. I think with more and more voters being seniors, they're going to have more and more clout.
Conservative