Human Resources Committee on June 1st, 2006

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I understood the first part, and I know that Ms. Yelich spoke to me about that. I don't understand why we wouldn't report the motion to the House, even if it is a study, so that the House knows what we're doing here. Then it can report back. I don't know why we're taking that out. Isn't that the normal...?

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

This one was specific to the report. Once we do the study, we will make a report, so I thought we should just--

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We would be reporting back on the report.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes, so why not just...? I'm okay with “study”, but I'd prefer that we just leave the rest the same.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

It can say, “or report this study”, then, I guess.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay. We're not reporting the motion; we're reporting the study. Correct? All right.

Do we have any more discussion on that?

Yes, Mr. Regan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Do we have clear wording now on this motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes. I believe the wording is “that this Committee should study the impact that the government should guarantee to all seniors a stable income”, and we leave the last part of the motion to state this: “...reporting all the above annually to Parliament and that the Chair of the Committee report this study to the House”.

[An hon. member]

Is there a change in the first part?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We took out “recommend” and added “study”.

Mr. Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Tony, if I may, I'd like to ask you a question.

We're talking about standard of living levels. En français we should say coût de la vie. What's the difference between your niveaux de vie donnés and coût de la vie? I don't understand why you would relate the Canada Pension Plan and the Old Age Security program to standard of living versus cost of living. Do you say the same thing, or is it just semantics?

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes, it means the same to me.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Well, in policy it doesn't. Standard of living and cost of living are not the same.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chairman, isn't the question you're talking about here the increase in cost of living? Is that what you mean? A standard of living is quite a different matter. It's much more vague. It seems to me to be amorphous in terms of the concept.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

So are you suggesting that we put “cost of living” in there?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I think what you really want is to link it to increases or changes in the cost of living, don't you?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes, changes in the cost of living.

If there is no more discussion, we'll vote on the amendment by Ms. Yelich, which was the amendment we just made.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

On the motion as amended, is there any more discussion?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Would you mind reading it back to us?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I believe it is: “That the Committee study the impact that the government should guarantee to all seniors a stable and secure income by: (a) linking the Canadian Pension Plan and the Old Age Security Program to the changes in the cost of living levels...”

All the way through, it remains the same. Then the last part would be: “...and that the Chair of the Committee would report this study to the House.”

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chairman, the problem I have is that I don't think it makes sense right now.

It says that “the Committee study the impact that the government should guarantee”. Do you mean “if the government guarantees” or “study the impact”? I don't hear a sentence there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

“That the Committee study the impact of the government guaranteeing to all seniors...” and so on, from there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you. We'll get that grammatically changed.

We're going to have the vote on the final motion, whatever it was.

Is there any more discussion?

Mr. Martin.

[Tony Martin, NDP, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes, I would share with the committee that we've accommodated the government on this. We actually wanted a much stronger statement sent to the government that there be a guarantee that the rising cost of living will be reflected in the programs we offer to seniors. As you know, in our economy today and in our country today, the demographic that seems to be falling further and further into poverty are our seniors, for a variety of reasons, such as the rising cost of energy.

I would hope that we would move quickly to do the study and that the government would be open, and at the end of the day, if it looks like this is something we should be doing, they would support us in recommending that we guarantee seniors a stable and secure income.