Evidence of meeting #44 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:10 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
With all due respect for your opinion, Mr. Chairman, if you want to call the question again—
1:10 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
We are not going to be discussing this with the witnesses, Mr. Chairman, we are going to be discussing it among ourselves. Why are we having this debate with the witnesses? If the witness mentions it once, that is enough. We will take note of that, but we will not discuss this matter with the witnesses.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
My time hasn't started yet, because I'm speaking to the point of order, actually. Decisions were made, according to the Standing Orders, to ram this through. Let's be clear.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I'll go on with my questioning. I want to go back to this proposed subsection 94(2.4) now.
Mr. Forder, do you have a copy of the bill in front of you?
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I'm going to read proposed subsection 94(2.2) first. It states:
Despite subsection (2.1), an employer may use the services of the following persons during a strike or lock-out:
(a) a person employed as a manager, superintendent or foreman or as a representative of the employer in employer-employee relations; or
(b) a person serving as a director or officer of a corporation, unless the person has been designated to serve in that capacity for the person’s employer by the employees or by a certified association.
I'd like Mr. Forder to read proposed subsection 94(2.4) for me, please.
1:10 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Canadian Auto Workers Union
It reads:
The measures referred to in subsection (2.2) shall exclusively be conservation measures and not measures to allow the continuation of the production of goods or services otherwise prohibited by subsection (2.1).
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Canadian Auto Workers Union
You can conserve and maintain the apparatus.
1:10 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Canadian Auto Workers Union
The employer.
This is an improvement over last year's bill, which didn't have provisions for this. We think this is a better provision, especially for the employer.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
What does the second part mean, “and not measures to allow”? What does the rest of that mean to you?
1:10 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Canadian Auto Workers Union
There shouldn't be a continuation of production facilities because that would escalate exactly what we are trying to minimize by reducing the friction occurring when workers who exercise their legal right to strike see their jobs threatened because they've exercised that right.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
So it's clear to you in the bill that even management can't step in to operate the business?
1:10 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Canadian Auto Workers Union
They can operate the business, as the legislation proposes, and we support it, and that is to maintain the business, to make it prime.
You know, there's not a big bad union here. We take a vote, and 66 2/3% of the voters must vote before there's a strike. So it's nonsense that all these people who don't want to strike are being dragged out there. That helps us get the settlement.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Thanks, Mr. Forder.
I'd like to hear Mr. Whyte comment on what proposed subsection 94(2.4) means to him, and then I'm going to pass my time off to Mr. Anders.
1:10 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
What I'm reading is that you can keep the lights on, you can keep the equipment running, and you can keep it together, but you can't keep it going. I know that some big, big companies can keep going for quite a while without any production. With our firms, some of them can't keep going past the month—and it will hurt them. It will put them out of business.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Rob Anders Conservative Calgary West, AB
Before I came to the House of Commons, something I did was to represent workers who were abused by union leaders. So I'd like to pose some questions to the CFIB.
How does the CFIB feel about mandatory secret ballots on strike votes? There are some strike votes conducted in this country that aren't secret ballots.
How does the CFIB feel about union leaders being personally held accountable for wildcat strikes? In other words, if they go ahead and organize a strike illegally, should the fines be paid from their personal net worth, not from union funds, and jail time be assessed against them and not be bargained away?
Also, how does the CFIB feel about having police press charges for picket-line violence, rather than leaving it as a civil action? In other words, this would disallow snowballing, a practice whereby the charges are bargained away in the settlement of disputes.
As well, even the Quebec government itself found it could not operate within the confines of its own replacement worker law during the strike by SAQ several years ago. I wonder if you could comment on that and how this legislation has affected British Columbia.
1:15 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
First off, this question wasn't planted, because I certainly don't have all the answers on those things.
1:15 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
