Human Resources Committee on Jan. 30th, 2007

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

This is in relation to that and what's been mentioned by Mr. Lessard and Mr. Silva. Whether we finish hearing all the witnesses on February 8, or whether the motion doesn't pass and we don't end up hearing them until February 13, it is important to have a balance. There are a number of stakeholders and a number of constituents in all of our ridings who are very passionate one way or the other, and we owe it to Canadians, as parliamentarians, to ensure that there is balance. There have been a number of witnesses who have already come forward, but perhaps other witnesses and stakeholders have not contacted the clerk or us as MPs because they were under the impression that the hearing and their opportunity had expired.

Whatever time we do have left to hear witnesses, it is important that we have representatives from all sides.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

We have Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

If a motion is properly tabled, we will look at it closely. We thought that we could carry on in the way that we had decided. Earlier, I described how this came about and how the imbalance was created. If there is anything new to propose, I can tell you that there will be witnesses from the transportation sector. I have a long experience in negotiating with this sector. I know that they would like to come, but I also know that they have already been represented by their central body. This is also the case with education and health. I have no objection to proceeding in this way, but let me emphasize that this is not what we had agreed on at the outset. As I said earlier, some solutions were improvised, which is unfortunate. It led to the current situation, which is unfair.

Now we have to choose by default because someone was absent on this side of the table. We know what this has led to. Mr. Chairman, it was your decision. We have to make do with the current situation. If we want to find a balance, let me tell you that we will find it. We can do it by calling in the proper witnesses. Those who allowed the current situation to develop are telling us that they want to restore an equilibrium. There are organizations that are ready to come here to restore the balance. This could take us to the 13th of the month.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll go to Ms. Davies.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Just in response to that, I realize that there is an imbalance in the witnesses that we are yet to hear, but I'm also very concerned about the time. I think if we begin to add witnesses at this point, then this will just go longer and longer.

So my proposal is to make sure that the witnesses we have scheduled now are heard. The technical briefing, and everybody has said this, is very important. If we just keep adding witnesses, we're going to be putting that off.

I would like the committee to focus on the business. I really think we've heard the arguments. We have heard the arguments from business and labour. So you can add more labour. I mean, I'd love more labour to come, but I don't think you're going to hear anything new in terms of the arguments that are presented.

I think what the committee needs to focus on is to get into this bill and go through it, to hear the technical witnesses, and to then go through it clause by clause to see where we're at and to see whether there are any changes or clarifications because of things that have arisen.

I'm arguing that we not change this motion, that we stick to a timetable. This moves it up by one week and makes the compromise that we add some additional hours to make sure that we can do our business. I think it's reasonable, and it will allow us to focus on the technical discussion, which we need to have, frankly, and then to do the clause-by-clause.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Go ahead, Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I just want to say a couple of things. I agree with Ms. Davies that we need to get the technical witnesses in here sooner rather than later. I think we do need to get technical witnesses in here. It will help us to understand and put in context more of the testimony that we're hearing.

As for the type of witness testimony we're hearing, I would say that actually today, at least on the business side, was very different from what we've heard from more national organizations. We actually heard more examples that are specific regional examples from your own areas, and I do think it's important that we hear more regional testimony. If there are labour groups that want to come in that can offer a different perspective from what their national organizations have given--I'd be surprised if that were the case--and if they can and want to come, then I would agree with Mr. Lessard: let's involve them, as well. That would be fine with me.

Further to Mr. Lessard's point, as far as the mechanics of this committee, this all came about because you guys tried to do this in two meetings within one week. So you talk about gamesmanship. I think that was the prime example of gamesmanship on this committee, trying to put this through in three days of testimony, basically, and that's ridiculous. What went on after that was just a simple response to that.

My recommendation would be that we stick with the schedule as is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay, if there are no comments, then we'd certainly be happy to call the question.

Madame Lavallée.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

First and foremost, I want to tell Mr. Savage that I would never have compared him to Mr. Baird. I could never compare the two with regard to social conscience. I have too much respect for you, Mr. Savage.

As for the calendar, let me say that it does not end on February 15. Earlier, we were told that it was only a week, and that we should be patient. In fact, the calendar ends on February 21. It is true that there is not much time between the 8th and the 15th, but if we defer it to the 21st, we will also be defering all the subsequent procedures in the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

If there are no more comments, I'll call the question, then.

The motion is:

That, in relation to Bill C-257, this committee direct the clerk to ensure that the hours of currently scheduled committee meetings are extended as necessary so that a technical briefing be held no later than February 1; that all currently scheduled witnesses be heard by no later than February 7; and that a clause-by-clause reading of the bill be completed on February 8, 2007.

All in favour of the motion please signify.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would like a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

A recorded vote? Okay.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Now I want to read a motion for the proposed budget of $18,500....

I'm sorry?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I move that the budget and the proposed calendar be moved to a steering committee meeting for consideration and discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We have a challenge: we have witnesses booked to come tomorrow, which is a part of the calendar, so that presents a challenge.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

We met today without adopting a schedule.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

The challenge is that we have witnesses coming tomorrow who are scheduled for a video conference that we need to have the funds approved for.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

How did you get the ones today?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

There was no video conference today.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

What I said earlier, was that you held today's meeting without having adopted a schedule. Consequently, a meeting could very well be held tomorrow without adopting a schedule.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Sure, we could address the calendar tomorrow; we could set aside some more time.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

To the steering committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Could I have someone move that the proposed budget of $18,500 be adopted, and that the chair present the said budget to the subcommittee of the Liaison Committee?

Ms. Yelich moves it.

Monsieur Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I have a question about the budget, Mr. Chairman. Have we always adopted budgets for witnesses? Formerly, witnesses came at their own cost.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes, we would, if.... We're going to see them via video conference, so this is to hear some of the witnesses via video conference.

Mr. Lessard, and then Ms. Davies.