Human Resources Committee on Feb. 8th, 2007

[Sean Finn]

In the case of a locomotive engineer, we're talking six months of training. Clearly, we do not take people off the street, to answer your question.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Also, if you were to go on strike, it would be very unlikely that you could bring in replacement workers in a very short time. Is that right?

[Sean Finn]

That's right. We don't bring in replacement workers. We use managers and retired employees, which we did in the CAW strike in 2004.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

With respect to replacement workers, what you're talking about is actually bringing in people who have retired. You wouldn't be able to bring in people off the street because you wouldn't have enough time to train them. Is that right?

[Sean Finn]

That's right. They would not be qualified under the rules to operate on the property as locomotive engineers, conductors, or train men.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

The reason I ask this question is that a lot of the people and the businesses that come before this committee keep stating that they'd like to have this provision in place. But at the same time, when I speak to them one on one--and it's the same with other groups I've spoken to that have been here before the committee--they outline that if they really go on strike, they can't bring in replacement workers because there are not enough people out there for the market demand and they need to be highly trained, and so there's going to be difficulty. This is more about seeing what we can do at the negotiating table, but in reality we can't really use replacement workers because they're just not out there to meet the demand.

Is that a fair comment?

[Sean Finn]

It is. We cannot bring in people off the street.

As you know, the issue under the current bill is that managers would be considered replacement workers. So even though you have qualified workers—

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Where have you seen that? I don't see that at all in the legislation. I'm a little bit confused about why you say that.

[Sean Finn]

In the last draft you prohibited the use of managers to do the work.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Well, it's not the case, but that's one of the things we're hoping to clarify—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Silva, it is correct. That is part of the bill in the English version.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Okay. There has been a problem with the English and the French text.

Anyway, it certainly was never the intent of the legislation. I guess we have to speak and try to see if we can work that one out when we go to the clause-by-clause consideration of the legislation as well as with the—

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. The wording does not say that managers do not have the right to work, on the contrary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

There is no point of order. We'll deal with that.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

The bill is identical to the Quebec government's act, which allows management representatives to work. Mr. Allison knows that; he's from Quebec. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Ms. Lavallée.

Back to Mr. Silva.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

We will make sure that concern of yours is addressed. I think that will be addressed when we go clause-by-clause through this particular bill.

To the Canadian Courier and Logistics Association, Mr. Turnbull, you were minister during the time of Mr. Harris' government, which repealed the old legislation that was on the books. I just want to know how many of your members are unionized and how many of them fall within the Canada Labour Code.

[David Turnbull]

The greatest percentage of people who work within members of our association are unionized, but we have both unionized and non-unionized organizations.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

With a federal charter that requires that they would be applicable to part I of the Canada Labour Code.

[David Turnbull]

Three of the biggest members are, certainly. Purolator is a very large unionized organization. Maybe Mr. Henderson would like to speak to that.

[William Henderson, Senior Vice-President, Operations, Canadian Courier and Logistics Association]

Actually, I can speak to Purolator. A collective bargaining agent for Purolator is actually the Teamsters. We're actually the Teamsters' largest membership, followed by our colleagues at CN, subsequently by UPS of Canada. CAW is a collective bargaining agent for DHL. Of the 46,000 employees that the industry employs, approximately 60% or 70% of those employees are unionized.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I have a final question, again to CN. I know you're before the board. Has there been a decision yet by the board on section 87.4, what is deemed to be essential services?

[Sean Finn]

We're not before the board right now.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

You're not before the board. Before you go on strike, you'd have to go and ask for a ruling from the board.

[Sean Finn]

No. Essentially, if we can demonstrate that for the purposes of health and safety some of our services should be deemed essential, we would go before the board, but historically we have not been successful in that area. The argument would be for GO Transit and AMT. We could make that argument. But let me make it perfectly clear, there's been no determination in the case of the railway. Anything we do is considered essential services as defined in the current legislation dealing with health and safety.