Evidence of meeting #53 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was strike.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian National
In the case of a locomotive engineer, we're talking six months of training. Clearly, we do not take people off the street, to answer your question.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
Also, if you were to go on strike, it would be very unlikely that you could bring in replacement workers in a very short time. Is that right?
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian National
That's right. We don't bring in replacement workers. We use managers and retired employees, which we did in the CAW strike in 2004.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
With respect to replacement workers, what you're talking about is actually bringing in people who have retired. You wouldn't be able to bring in people off the street because you wouldn't have enough time to train them. Is that right?
4:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian National
That's right. They would not be qualified under the rules to operate on the property as locomotive engineers, conductors, or train men.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
The reason I ask this question is that a lot of the people and the businesses that come before this committee keep stating that they'd like to have this provision in place. But at the same time, when I speak to them one on one--and it's the same with other groups I've spoken to that have been here before the committee--they outline that if they really go on strike, they can't bring in replacement workers because there are not enough people out there for the market demand and they need to be highly trained, and so there's going to be difficulty. This is more about seeing what we can do at the negotiating table, but in reality we can't really use replacement workers because they're just not out there to meet the demand.
Is that a fair comment?
4:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian National
It is. We cannot bring in people off the street.
As you know, the issue under the current bill is that managers would be considered replacement workers. So even though you have qualified workers—
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
Where have you seen that? I don't see that at all in the legislation. I'm a little bit confused about why you say that.
4:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian National
In the last draft you prohibited the use of managers to do the work.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
Well, it's not the case, but that's one of the things we're hoping to clarify—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Mr. Silva, it is correct. That is part of the bill in the English version.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
Okay. There has been a problem with the English and the French text.
Anyway, it certainly was never the intent of the legislation. I guess we have to speak and try to see if we can work that one out when we go to the clause-by-clause consideration of the legislation as well as with the—
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. The wording does not say that managers do not have the right to work, on the contrary.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
The bill is identical to the Quebec government's act, which allows management representatives to work. Mr. Allison knows that; he's from Quebec. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
We will make sure that concern of yours is addressed. I think that will be addressed when we go clause-by-clause through this particular bill.
To the Canadian Courier and Logistics Association, Mr. Turnbull, you were minister during the time of Mr. Harris' government, which repealed the old legislation that was on the books. I just want to know how many of your members are unionized and how many of them fall within the Canada Labour Code.
4:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Courier and Logistics Association
The greatest percentage of people who work within members of our association are unionized, but we have both unionized and non-unionized organizations.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
With a federal charter that requires that they would be applicable to part I of the Canada Labour Code.
4:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Courier and Logistics Association
Three of the biggest members are, certainly. Purolator is a very large unionized organization. Maybe Mr. Henderson would like to speak to that.
4:15 p.m.
William Henderson Senior Vice-President, Operations, Canadian Courier and Logistics Association
Actually, I can speak to Purolator. A collective bargaining agent for Purolator is actually the Teamsters. We're actually the Teamsters' largest membership, followed by our colleagues at CN, subsequently by UPS of Canada. CAW is a collective bargaining agent for DHL. Of the 46,000 employees that the industry employs, approximately 60% or 70% of those employees are unionized.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
I have a final question, again to CN. I know you're before the board. Has there been a decision yet by the board on section 87.4, what is deemed to be essential services?
4:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian National
We're not before the board right now.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Mario Silva Liberal Davenport, ON
You're not before the board. Before you go on strike, you'd have to go and ask for a ruling from the board.
4:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Public Affairs, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary, Canadian National
No. Essentially, if we can demonstrate that for the purposes of health and safety some of our services should be deemed essential, we would go before the board, but historically we have not been successful in that area. The argument would be for GO Transit and AMT. We could make that argument. But let me make it perfectly clear, there's been no determination in the case of the railway. Anything we do is considered essential services as defined in the current legislation dealing with health and safety.