Human Resources Committee on May 17th, 2007

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Clearly the minister has this information right now. Mr. Lessard is right. In answer to my question he rhymed off some groups in my riding that got money, he rhymed some off in Cape Breton. This information is easy to get. It's not hard; we have computers. He has the information.

We should say June 1. If there's a reason he can't make that, then he can come back. We're reasonable people. We'll listen to that. But we should put a timeframe on it because we're getting close to summer. This program started way too late this year. The government was way too late out of the blocks. A number of organizations didn't qualify because they couldn't get the paperwork done in time. It was absolutely haphazard and disgraceful how this has been handled by the government. It is shameful. It is shameful that kids with autism, kids with cancer, are not getting support this year.

We have to move on this, and we have to move on it damn fast.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I would say that we're usually reasonable, or most of the time, anyway.

Mr. Lessard.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, two days ago, I asked the minister to hand over the lists in question. He told us that this information could be found on the Internet. That's not the case. Those who heard him make that statement quickly logged on to the department's website, but despite what the minister had said, they couldn't find the information on the website either. They are being told that everything will be ready for posting on the website on May 30, 2007.

Mr. Chairman, if these lists are indeed to be published on the Internet on May 30, I think that we should be able to have them by June 1.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

If there's no further discussion, we're going to have a vote on the amendment on the motion of Mr. Savage. Once again, it's that the information be provided by June 1.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

With the understanding that if it can't be provided we can come back and suggest another date.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Sure.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

It's not quite that easy. I believe this is a new program. It's not the old program that the opposition member is talking about; it's definitely a new program. The fact of the riding by riding...the reason is that you are finding places in cities and towns in your riding that have been denied. So there is a list that has already been processed, and I think you have to take that into consideration. The list is still being considered, and there are more people being acknowledged as to whether they have received funds or not.

So I think you have to give us a little time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We were so close to a vote.

Mr. Lessard, followed by Ms. Dhalla.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, out of respect for the interpreters who provide us with excellent service, I must again speak up about BlackBerries. I can't understand why this issue keeps cropping up in committee. Just because there is no feedback, people think it's quite all right to use them. However, it creates a problem for the interpreters. Could we perhaps come to an agreement on this issue amongst ourselves? I'm not trying to lecture anyone. I'm talking about something very basic here.

Getting back to the content of the amendment, Mr. Chairman, there's an old saying that no one can be expected to do the impossible. Mr. Savage alluded to it as well. If the minister ever tells us that it's impossible, he will surely give us reasons. With all of the new technologies out there, this has to be possible, to my mind. If it's impossible, it must mean that we're poorly equipped, or that we didn't properly prepare ourselves this year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Lessard.

Ms. Dhalla, and then we'll call the vote.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I just actually have a point of clarification. The parliamentary secretary to the minister mentioned that they are still in the process of awarding additional funding?

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

I don't think the organizations have had notification yet. There are still notifications to be sent out. It is a new program and there is a lot of review. They're trying to meet criteria, some very important criteria. The program has changed.

But we'll go with what Mr. Savage has suggested. Just call the vote.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

The government website does say that all organizations will be notified by May 15 whether they were successful or not. So they should have that information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That was, as I said, a couple of days ago.

I will now call the vote on the amendment, the Bloc amendment, to make sure that this information is back in our hand by June 1.

Okay, we want a recorded vote.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 10; nays 0)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

The amendment is carried, so my question is now on the main motion.

I had a couple of names on the list. I originally had Ms. Dhalla and Mr. Savage. Did you still want to talk to that? And then I'll add Ms. Chow.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I just think—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Once again, if I could get people to turn their BlackBerrys to quiet, that would be great. I think the vibrations are showing up through the sound system.

We're going to move to Ms. Dhalla, Mr. Savage, and then Ms. Chow.

[Ruby Dhalla, Liberal, Brampton—Springdale, ON]

I think Mr. Savage's motion is extremely important. I know there are a number of students in my riding of Brampton—Springdale who were employed and working with NGOs and who are no longer able to receive funding to get gainful employment for their summer. This has had a severe impact on them, because they utilized this particular opportunity to have jobs over the summer period to pay for their tuition and to pay for their loans.

The Conservatives have said that this is a new program and that they didn't want to fund private companies. I don't think anyone around this table would be in disagreement with that, but I think the important work non-profit organizations are doing in advocating, whether for autism, for cancer, for people with disabilities, or the homeless—I think they are doing tremendous work.

Many organizations that used to receive a number of opportunities for hiring students and are no longer able to do so have been calling my office in the last two weeks, and in the last few days in particular. They are really reconsidering how they're going to move forward.

As Mr. Savage said, I think this is a state of crisis for many of these students. I would really be interested in seeing what programs and companies applied, and the list of the ones that were denied. I hope this would have the support of all members around this committee table.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

I have Mr. Savage, Ms. Chow, Mr. Lake, and Ms. Yelich.

[Michael Savage, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

In response to a couple of questions that have been raised, all MPs can get the information now concerning the Privacy Act. Here is the list from last year of those who applied, those who were successful, and those who weren't. It's not marked confidential. It's available to any MP, so it certainly should be available to a committee.

As to riding by riding, this is important for comparison purposes. We owe it to our constituents and to the organizations and students in our riding to know how they're doing so that we can advocate on their behalf. There are a lot of organizations for which, if the results come out provincially, who knows where the regional independent students association is or which branch of the Canadian Diabetes Society was excluded? We need to know it riding by riding.

On the local aspect, it's not important because members of Parliament should have control, because frankly, I don't think they should. But Service Canada, which used to administer this program regionally, are just pulling their hair out in parts of Nova Scotia, I can tell you, saying this is the stupidest thing we've ever done. We have criteria that are absolutely nuts. We have high unemployment areas like Cape Breton that have been cut by, as far as we can tell, 90% in jobs. So they're saying—it's Service Canada saying this—“I can't believe we're doing this.”

So we need to know, from their point of view.

In Newfoundland, on the radio last night, there was a woman who was so excited that she got her summer grants. Then she heard from all the people who didn't, and she said, “I shouldn't have it.” She's offered her positions to other organizations that have been cut off. We need to know riding by riding, not so that MPs can have influence, but so that the local organizations can compare with previous years.

I agree with Ms. Chow on the appeal process, but I think that's a separate issue. I'd be happy to accept Mr. Lake's amendment about adding 2006, if he wanted, as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you.

I have Ms. Chow, Mr. Lake, and Ms. Yelich.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Chair, I'm wondering whether—this is a fairly friendly amendment—we could add also, “the funding allocation of 2006 and 2007 to each region”.

What I've noticed, Mr. Chair, is that there seem to be—On the ground, we notice that there are organizations being cut that have received funding for many years. There seem to be disputes. The minister is saying there are no funding cuts to non-profit organizations. That seems to be contrary to the experience people are having in different regions. So I think, just for it to be clear—

Then we would know whether Cape Breton in fact got the same kind of funding allocation as before. I don't know; I have no way of knowing. I know, in terms of the Greater Toronto Area, whether it may or may not be.

It doesn't have to be by riding, as long as it's by region, so at least there is some kind of comparison to see fundamentally whether it is because of the $11 million that's been cut from the program, or because there's a design flaw, or because of the staff not having historical knowledge. I think it's probably because of a combination of all of those reasons that we are seeing some really unfortunate situations, where organizations that have done very good work in the past are not receiving funding to hire summer students.

I thought that might be a friendly amendment, so that there would be a very clear discussion when we have the entire package of information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I would need to see that amendment. If you have something ready, would you let us know what it is and where it would be added?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

The exact wording is by including the words “funding allocation of 2006 and 2007 to each region”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Where is that added? Is that added at the end of the original motion, or where do you want to add that in the motion?