Evidence of meeting #8 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sheila Fraser  Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Charles Nixon  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development
Hy Braiter  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

This is the information we're going to send out on our employability study in the fall. We need to get the approval of the committee on the wording and the way it reads so we can send it out, let everyone know what we're doing, and get some witnesses.

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Could we have a few minutes, Mr. Chairman, to familiarize ourselves with the contents?

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Mr. Lessard, have you had a chance to look at it?

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

I realize that at times, this is not possible, but could you send us the document the day before the scheduled meeting so that we have time to read it and thus, not delay the committee proceedings? This request is in line with the motion tabled and passed on June 1.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Yes, and in all fairness to Mr. Martin, we would have had more time to discuss this afterwards but he had to head out. We appreciate your being flexible in this regard. We will attempt to get those documents out sooner rather than later in the future.

I propose that if we receive the approval of the House to travel, we then be allowed to send this out to the witnesses and publish it on the website. That is the intent of what we've been talking about here on our employability study.

All in favour?

Bonnie, are you in favour?

Bonnie Brown Liberal Oakville, ON

Will you give me anonymity? I think you have enough votes.

(Motion agreed to)

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you to the witnesses for letting us take care of that housekeeping item.

I want to welcome representatives from the Department of Human Resources and Social Development. I believe you have an opening statement for us. We'll get you started.

Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Nixon.

Charles Nixon Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First I'd like to introduce my colleagues at the table. Hy Braiter is senior ADM, service delivery, responsible for integrity for the last year. Onno Kremers is director general of integrity.

We appreciate this opportunity to speak to you today about the integrity of the social insurance number. We believe the committee's invitation is timely, given the progress we have made on the recommendations of the Auditor General's 2002 report, and the 2003 report of this committee, on the management of the social insurance number program.

Overall, our objective is to establish a world-class system to manage the social insurance number. Such a system must have accountability built in throughout the process, be rigorous, contain accurate information, and ensure that Canadians can easily and securely get access to their benefits.

Responsibility for the management of the SIN is now with Service Canada, which is committed to improving the delivery of programs and services to Canadians. Service Canada is working with a growing number of federal departments, provinces and territories to move the one-stop service approach forward. Progress we have made with SIN is at the forefront of this approach. At the same time, we are committed to maintaining the integrity and confidentiality of Canadians' information.

We are accountable to our clients and to all Canadian taxpayers for our results. In fact, being accountable and reporting to Canadians annually on our performance is enshrined in our Service Canada charter. We believe that the progress we have made since 2003 is very significant in enhancing the integrity of the SIN process and the register itself.

To ensure accountability and transparency, we have initiated a review by an independent audit firm of the integrity of the SIN and the social insurance register. As well, this review will validate that both the SIN and the SIR are well positioned to fulfill their role as a foundation for the integrity of Service Canada's programs and services. We expect the results during the course of this summer and would welcome the opportunity to share these with the committee. We are working closely with the Auditor General on this review as part of their audit of the program.

Similarly, we recognize that we need to regularly report on our progress. This is what we have done through our annual reporting to Parliament using regular departmental reports on plans and priorities, and performance reports. In addition, we submitted a progress report to this committee in 2003, and annual updates to the Auditor General in 2003, 2004, and 2005.

We take the management of the SIN seriously and have made significant progress to ensure rigour in the entire SIN process: rigour in issuing a social insurance number to the right individual, rigour in monitoring the use of that number, and rigour in ensuring the highest level of integrity in the social insurance register.

We issue more than one million social insurance numbers a year. In keeping with Service Canada's commitments, we have re-engineered the entire process for issuing a social insurance number from end to end, introducing rigorous controls while improving the service to the client. We call the new service SIN Rapid Access.

Our improved SIN application service requires that all our front-line staff have training and certification in identity management. The process requires a face-to-face rigorous review of the applicant's identity and documentation before staff can take an application. Our new SIN Rapid Access process also supports staff with tools they need to make decisions and referrals on high-risk clients to our investigators. Furthermore, automation of the process reduces errors in data capture.

Clients can now apply and receive a SIN in person in one visit, versus a wait of three to six weeks. This makes a big difference to people entering the workforce or receiving other benefits. The service is currently operating in 193 of Service Canada's centres in every region of the country and will be fully operational in all Service Canada centres this fall.

We have also tightened our proof of identity processes that provide assurance that we have the right client. We now accept only original birth certificates and original immigration documents. Gone are the multiple documents we used to accept, such as baptismal certificates.

Underpinning the new SIN issuance process is a robust SIN/SIR quality assurance system which consists of rigorous controls that guide each step of issuing new SINs. This is yet another move to ensure our processes are robust so we know the information in the SIR is accurate.

More significantly, we are encouraging more rigorous and consistent use of the SIN through a SIN code of practice. It will provide guidance to all SIN users to safeguard the security and privacy of the SIN, and it will provide practical guidance and tools to assist in doing this. The code is designed for all SIN users: individuals, employers, the private sector, SIN partners, and Service Canada employees. We are currently undertaking a broad engagement strategy on the code with various consumer, employer, private sector, and government stakeholder groups. Following this, we hope to officially launch the code this fall.

As part of this process, we would welcome the committee's views. If you'd like, we can table a copy of the draft code with you.

Mr. Chairman, having accurate information in the social insurance registry is a critical requirement to Service Canada's objective to bring this important register up to world-class levels. To this end, we have reduced the variance between the number of living SIN holders and the size of the Canadian population to about 700,000 today. We have certified the accuracy of millions of SIR records by flagging them as deceased, dormant, or unusable; for instance, by eliminating those 900-series SINs that have expired. The 900-series belongs to people who are neither Canadian citizens nor permanent residents; for example, temporary workers or foreign students.

There are legitimate reasons why the number of SINs issued exceeds the total Canadian population. For example, there are Canadians who are living, studying, or working abroad, or foreign workers who have legitimate SINs but are no longer residing in Canada and are still eligible for CPP benefits. Also, there are Canadian pensioners who have decided to live abroad.

Our automated linkages with other government departments, such as Citizenship and Immigration Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency, and with provinces and territories for historical and ongoing, timely birth/death data will continue to enhance the accuracy of the SIR.

As recommended by this committee and the Auditor General, we have successfully negotiated agreements with New Brunswick, Ontario, and British Columbia so that we can validate documents automatically and electronically at their source. This means that when we receive an application for a SIN, we can automatically validate with the issuing province that this is a legitimate birth certificate, thus increasing the accuracy of the SIR.

These agreements currently cover approximately 54% of Canada's population. We are actively pursuing agreements with the remaining provinces and territories and hope to have most of these in place over the course of the next year. As you know, we already have secure links with Citizenship and Immigration so we can accurately identify 100% of permanent and temporary residents.

Finally, we are currently undertaking a benchmarking exercise to define levels of accuracy and completeness and set key performance indicators for the SIR using best practices from around the world, including those of the U.S. Social Security Administration. The results of this exercise will assist us in further improving the accuracy of the SIR.

In closing, the progress we have made in improving the integrity of the SIN program enables the service transformation that is at the heart of Service Canada: enhancing the accessibility of services to Canadians. We envisage issuing SINs to Canadians when they need them so that they can receive the easy-to-access services they are entitled to—when a newborn arrives in the family, when a newcomer arrives in the country, and when a young person needs one for work. At the same time, when someone dies, we will automatically deactivate the SIN and proactively provide survivors' benefits.

Just to give one example of how this is unfolding, through our links with vital events agencies, we are piloting an initiative in eight hospitals in Ontario that will offer a SIN at the same time as a birth is registered. Today, a parent cannot get a SIN, or a passport for that matter, without a birth certificate. Without a SIN, a parent cannot apply for a Canada learning bond or an educational savings grant. The SIN at birth offers parents the opportunity to combine three separate processes--birth registration, birth certificate application, and application for a SIN--all in one electronic process. We expect to roll out this service in all hospitals in Ontario early this fall, and in British Columbia too. In short, this is a fundamental shift in the way service is provided to Canadians, while enhancing the integrity of the process.

Thank you. We will be happy to address your questions or comments on what we've been doing to protect the integrity of the SIN and to provide better service to Canadians.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Mr. Nixon.

We're going to get into our second round now.

Starting us off will be Mr. D'Amours, for five minutes.

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the three witnesses for joining us. I'm sure you are backed by a team of employees.

My question pertains to the SIN registration system for newborns. I believe registration can be done on line, that is over the Internet. Is that in fact the case?

9:55 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

Charles Nixon

No. It's possible to do it over the Internet. What we discovered in looking at the forms for birth registration, birth certificate, and SIN is they all ask essentially the same questions. We decided to work with our colleagues in Ontario to put together a system whereby we could coordinate this to improve the experience, so a citizen did not have to run around to two levels of government and get three sets of forms for the necessary documentation. This can be done over the Internet.

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

These are precisely the types of transactions that can be done on line.

What types of safeguards are in place when someone applies on line? For example, when a parent applies for a SIN number for a newborn child, what measures are in place to ensure that the correct information is supplied to you?

When face-to-face meetings are eliminated, clearly incorrect documents may at times be provided. We hope that's not the case, but in reality, it does happen occasionally.

Therefore, before you issue a card and a SIN to the parents, what guarantees do you have that these documents are in effect being issued to a newborn in Canada?

June 15th, 2006 / 9:55 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

Charles Nixon

We have the same processes now. We need the parents to sign off for a child. As well, in the case of a birth, you have the signature of the doctor. Those attest to the birth and provide the comfort and security we need to issue a number to that baby.

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

However, when an application is submitted on line, there's no signature. I understand your reasoning, but when a document must be signed in person at a Human Resources or Service Canada office, the signature is witnessed and identification may be requested. Moreover, when an application is made on line, what assurances do we have today and how will we know in future that the SIN will in fact be issued to a Canadian newborn?

Obviously, a newborn doesn't have access to a great many things. However, our goal is to be proactive. We're not merely concerned about the present, but also about the future. Fifteen or sixteen years down the road, because an application was submitted in his name, a person could conceivably use a SIN that should not have been issued to him.

Therefore, what safeguards are in place at this time, and what measures will be taken in future to ensure that on-line applications are a secure process for Canadians?

9:55 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

Charles Nixon

It's a two-step process. As it stands today, you need the documentation from a province to get a birth certificate to get a social insurance number and that's embedded in what I've described as a two-step process as well. Once a birth has been registered, which does require parents and doctors, that is then signalled to us via a secure channel. On the basis of that comfort from the province, we will issue a social insurance number to that infant.

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

I realize I'm running short on time, Mr. Chairman.

I understand that a parent cannot apply on line, either today or in the future, unless some important information from the province has been supplied. Therefore, even if parents were to apply for a SIN, if you haven't received this information, there's no possible way for a SIN to be issued. You're saying then that there are safeguards in place for Canadians.

9:55 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

Charles Nixon

That's correct.

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Thank you.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

We're going to move on to the next questioner, Ms. Bonsant, for five minutes.

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Good morning.

I'd like to begin by sharing a complaint with you. A constituent informed me that his SIN card was mailed to him in an unsealed envelope. I find that rather odd. If you do use envelopes, you should check to be sure that they are properly sealed.

You mentioned that Service Canada works quickly to issue SIN card. I hope you're not just acting quickly for statistical purposes, so that Service Canada can claim to be doing its job well, because the potential for errors exists. I think this is a very important point.

When they were born, I applied for SIN numbers for my daughters. I didn't have any problems. However, waiting one, two or three months doesn't make much of a difference to a three-month-old baby. He's not about to use the SIN to get a job at McDonald's. Therefore, I think you need to proceed very carefully when you issue a SIN to a newborn.

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Blackburn would be happy to hear that.

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

I know he went to work at the age of 12, but there's a difference between 12 years and 12 weeks.

10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

Charles Nixon

Okay, we'll take your advice on the glue on the envelopes.

Also, what's happening now is that there are programs available for babies if people want to start an education savings grant or a learning bond for their baby at birth. That's why it has become much more interesting for parents, or grandparents--or whoever--to have a social insurance number, because you need one of those in order to benefit from those programs. That's why it has become necessary--not just for the first job, but also early on in life when you can start investing for the post-secondary education of a child.

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

In this computer age, how can the government not realize that the same SIN is being used by more than one individual? Isn't there some kind of warning issued somewhere that this number is associated with four different names? Does the left hand even know what the right hand is doing?

10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Partnerships and Corporate Affairs - Service Canada, Department of Human Resources and Social Development

Charles Nixon

We have done a review of the register to look at whether there are, first of all, anything like duplicate numbers, so that's part of our work on the integrity of the social insurance registry. As well, we look at names that are similar to ensure that people don't have more than one. We've done that work, as well, and found that there were very few duplicates, people holding two numbers.

This is part of the work we constantly do to try to ensure the integrity of the registry.