Human Resources Committee on April 1st, 2008

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

It's because they're like brothers.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I could tell you again—and I repeat myself—800,000 people are unqualified for EI, and 1.5 million children are hungry in our country. I say employment insurance has done it. I think that's the way to go about it if we want to change some things in our country.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thanks, Mr. Godin.

Okay. I will call the question if there's no more discussion on the amendment that Mr. Lake has put forward.

Is everyone clear on what the amendment is?

For our Bloc friends, the amendment was that we not look at this at all until we've done the poverty study. I could read it to you, “That upon completion....”

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

O.K., that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay, thank you.

(Amendment negatived)

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're back to the main motion. Did you have any more discussion?

Go ahead, Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

How would I like to phrase this? I want to make another amendment.

After the word “that”, I want to add the phrase, “with recognition that priority should be given to the poverty study”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Is that it? Okay. Could you just repeat that?

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Just add a comma after the word “that”, and “with recognition that priority should be given to the poverty study”, and the rest can stand.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay.

I have Mr. Lessard. Go ahead, sir.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

I will be brief, Mr. Chairman. I think that the amendment is out of order, but even if it is not, we will be voting against it. It is an attempt to achieve, by indirect means, what we just decided not to do by direct means. It is trying to do exactly what we just voted against doing. I would urge my colleagues to defeat these amendments until the Conservatives get the message, or until you rule them out of order.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I have Ms. Yelich and then Mr. Lake.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

What we're asking is to prioritize the poverty study, period. Then we'll go on. This can become part of it. He can perhaps introduce the motion, but let's get the poverty study under way and get it done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Yes, and my sense is that is the plan. I think as we talk and bring back some recommendations for Thursday, it was that we were going to come up with a work plan as a group on Thursday. I think everyone agrees that the poverty study should be started, and what Mike has suggested is that maybe at some point we work this in, but let's hear what everyone else is saying. Certainly we'll talk to Tony on Wednesday about that.

Mike, go ahead.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I won't speak long. Mr. Lessard says it's unacceptable that priority be given to the poverty study; I think the poverty study should take priority. I think that studying poverty for our committee should be a priority. The Bloc may have other ideas. It sounds as though they may have several different political priorities, but I think that a realistic and important priority for this committee should be that we conduct our poverty study.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Okay, thanks.

I've got Mr. Godin and Mr. Lessard.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I do not know whether the Conservatives think that we are a bunch of idiots. I know it is April Fool's Day today. They are trying to pull a swift one, but the people around this table are smart enough to see what is happening. They are trying to claim that they want to carry out a study on poverty and travel across Canada to gather testimony, but are being thwarted in their efforts by Mr. Lessard from the Bloc Québécois, Mr. Godin from the NDP and the Liberals, who do not consider the study to be a priority. It is outrageous. That is my personal opinion.

This motion could serve as a starting point for our study on poverty. It gives us one of the priorities for the study. It is part of our poverty study. I might propose an amendment at a later date but, for the moment, I trust that the steering committee will propose it. Even if today is April 1, April Fool's day, we are not buying it. We are not falling for Mr. Lake's April Fool's joke. In case they still do not understand, I will repeat the point for a third time: the changes to the employment insurance regime are a cause of poverty.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Lessard is next, and then Ms. Yelich.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Chairman, to say that I do not consider poverty to be a priority is an outrage. Obviously, anyone who has been following our work knows that it is a priority for me.

However, the issue here is not whether poverty is a priority. The majority of people on this committee have already established that it is. For the Bloc, the NDP and the Liberals, I think that it is clear: poverty is a priority. What is happening here is that the government is trying to delay the proposed study on the ramifications of setting up a Crown Corporation until after it has implemented its legislation, thus rendering our recommendations meaningless. The implementation is scheduled for the beginning of 2009; it will come around quickly.

Lets us not muddy the waters. Our priority remains the study on poverty, but we will also study Mr. Savage's motion. The committee will try to find a way to integrate the study into its work in order that the recommendations can be tabled in the House before we adjourn for the summer. If this Parliament continues after the summer recess, then I am sure the Conservatives will use dilatory tactics to put it off for as long as possible. We know what they are like. I think this would be the best way to proceed.

The best way to move forward is for the steering committee to meet and find a way to incorporate this into our work schedule without it affecting our work on poverty. That is the best way to approach this. Furthermore, once we start the study, we have to take the time to do it properly, we cannot just suggest any old change.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Ms. Yelich.

[Lynne Yelich, Conservative, Blackstrap, SK]

I would just like to say to Mr. Godin that we're not the stupid ones. We have actually followed the employment bill study for over two years, and perhaps he should let Mr. Martin sit in that chair and decide which is the priority. But I thought the priority study was first and foremost and was most important. With regard to EI, we're not talking about EI legislation; we're talking about setting up a fund. So it's different from the poverty study. It can be part of it, and perhaps we can make some suggestions about how this fund is going to work.

But my idea of the poverty study is that it's going to be an in-depth study about poverty, about getting people back to becoming contributors to the economy and becoming contributors for their own well-being. I think they're two different topics, and I think we're missing the boat. I had hoped the poverty study would work so that we would get it through before the next election. It's taken over two years for the employability study. Have we even introduced it to the House yet? It's still not there on our anniversary.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I have Mr. Lake, and then we could maybe vote on the amendment.

Mr. Lake.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Mr. Chair, the comments from Mr. Lessard and Mr. Godin are outrageous. They're absolutely ridiculous. Leadership is all about priorities. As elected representatives, we have a responsibility to set priorities, and people expect us to be able to set priorities and to manage those priorities. If the poverty study is more than just talking points for you, then we should study it diligently and efficiently and come up with a timely and solid report, and then move on to our other important priorities. But we have to set priorities. We have to get something done. We cannot take two years again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I will then call the question on Mr. Lake's second amendment.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Could you read that amendment? I think if the Liberals listen to it, they might....