Evidence of meeting #31 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada, Canada Pension Plan, Old Age Security, Department of Human Resources and Social Development Canada
It includes everything.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Yes. I understand that, in other countries, the number of years required to be entitled to the old age pension varies. If we lower the number of years from 10 to 3, would we necessarily be trying to have other countries change that number as well? What do you know about the number of years required by other countries for pension access purposes?
Acting Director, International Policy and Agreements, Department of Human Resources and Social Development Canada
If the act were amended to lower the required number of years from 10 to 3, that would have no impact on other countries. They each have their own acts. To be eligible, you need 25 years in certain cases, and 10 years in others. A minimum is established, and many factors are taken into consideration.
Few countries have an old age security system based on residence. In Australia and New Zealand, however, a minimum of 10 years is applied. The systems of those two countries are similar to Canada's. Most foreign systems are based on contributions, as in the case of the Canada Pension Plan. The number of years required varies from country to country. It's 25 years in Japan, 20 years in Italy and 5 years in Germany, I believe.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
In the case of countries that apply a system based on contributions, the benefit or pension is based on the number of contribution years.
Acting Director, International Policy and Agreements, Department of Human Resources and Social Development Canada
There are various ways to calculate pensions, but, in fact, you're right. The amount of the benefit is usually directly related to the number of years the person has contributed to the plan. There may be minimums and maximums, but you're nevertheless right.
Liberal
Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON
Just so we're all on the same page, for the benefit of all members, when you're signing these international social security agreements with other countries, the purpose of signing these agreements with these other countries is for contributory pensions or benefits in those particular countries.
This bill Ms. Beaumier is putting forward and what the seniors and organizations like the Old Age Benefits Forum are advocating for is with regard to old age security, which is non-contributory. So just for that element of it would you need a social service agreement?
Acting Director, International Policy and Agreements, Department of Human Resources and Social Development Canada
We coordinate Canada's public pension system, which is a two-tier system, old age security and the Canada Pension Plan, with whatever type of system the other country has. Very few countries have residence-based schemes--I mentioned a few--and most of them are contributory.
Yes, we would have to have agreements to help people qualify for benefits from that country and for the Canada Pension Plan or old age security abroad and for people who have less than three years of residency in Canada.
As I mentioned at the beginning, other features of social security agreements affect detached workers who are sent to work abroad temporarily. It protects them and allows them to continue to contribute to the Canada Pension Plan for a temporary period and to be exempted from paying contributions in the other country, so this results in savings for the companies that send these Canadian workers abroad.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Michael Savage
Okay. Are we ready for the question on clause 1?
(Clause 1 agreed to)
(Clause 2 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)
Liberal
Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON
Can we have a recorded vote for all the clauses, please?
(Clause 3 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)
Liberal
Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON
Did Mr. Lake say no? Does that sound familiar, Mr. Lake?
Liberal
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I am not in favour.
(Clause 4 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Michael Savage
We'll go back to the preamble. The fact that the bill was unamended should make this relatively simple.
Shall the preamble carry? We'll have a recorded vote.
(Preamble agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Michael Savage
Shall the title carry? We'll have a recorded vote.
(Title agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Michael Savage
Shall the bill carry? We'll have a recorded vote.
(Bill C-362 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Michael Savage
Shall I report the bill to the House? We'll have a recorded vote.
(Agreed: yeas 7; nays 2)
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Michael Savage
I'll report this to the House: that everybody loved the title, but they were mixed on the bill.
Is there anything else?
Folks, have a good week next week. We'll see you the week after.
The meeting is adjourned.