Evidence of meeting #16 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Thank you for attending today.
I paid very close attention to everyone's presentations today, and the one thing that I'm very surprised by, and perhaps you've left this out in your details, is that there is virtually no mention of mental health or addiction in any of your presentations. It's my understanding that for 60% of our people who are in poverty or are homeless, the root of their issue is mental health and addiction. We've talked a lot about dollars and cents, programs, EI, and GIS, but I'm wondering why that was not discussed here today.
12:15 p.m.
Outreach and Policy, Canada Without Poverty
Would you like me to respond to this? I'm happy to do that.
12:15 p.m.
Outreach and Policy, Canada Without Poverty
Your point is very well taken about the creation of ill health of all kinds through economic inequality in that segment that we call poverty. I can tell you from my own experience of having lived in income insecurity now for 15 years, even though I have a three-month contract with Canada Without Poverty that's just above the minimum wage. I'm being paid $10 per hour to do 25 hours' work.
The stress creates the long-term mental issues you're talking about. The only way I've managed to get through this—
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I don't mean to be disrespectful, Doctor, but what in particular do you propose in your presentation as a solution?
Perhaps Mr. Howlett would like to comment, because you had quite an in-depth presentation. In it there's a lot about dollars but nothing about mental health or addiction. What does your group recommend or suggest to combat this issue?
12:15 p.m.
Coordinator, Make Poverty History
The best way to improve mental health would be to reduce poverty. It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg question, perhaps. The stress of poverty causes a lot of mental health problems. The reverse is also true. You would argue that mental health causes people to go into poverty, but it works the other way as well.
At the same time, I would recognize that you do need some targeted programs for particular groups of people with challenges. Assisted housing and other programs would be very helpful.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I would beg to differ on that front, that dollars and cents will help somebody with paranoid schizophrenia, with a bipolar disorder. If that's our argument here, I think we're off track.
What I would also like to ask, Ms. Yalnizyan.... I'm sorry if I made a mistake in my pronunciation.
12:20 p.m.
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
No, it's correct.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Freezing the EI premiums.... I worked in the finance department of a company, and the fact is that in our current climate, the EI premiums likely would have been around $1.85. Today they're frozen at $1.73. That would add jobs. Would you suggest that freezing EI rates will in fact help add jobs to this economy? At the company I worked for, just the fact of freezing that rate was going to add one job at over $43,000. Is that what your economic research has also indicated?
12:20 p.m.
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Yes, there's no question that if you freeze the premium rates at this stage, you're going to not add insult to injury. But you've done that. You've done that in the legislation. It doesn't even get looked at until 2011. We're not talking about whether you're going to raise the premium rates. We're talking about what you are going to do to help the jobless, because those premium rates are set at a level, at your will. You have set up a commissioner to do that.
Could I speak to your earlier question about mental health and poverty?
12:20 p.m.
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
I completely understand your concern on that, and I would concur that there other supportive programs you could put into place. You know, we de-institutionalized an awful lot of people about 10 to 20 years ago. When I grew up there were no homeless people on the street. Part of it has been public policy. These people have no place to go and no way to hang on to a place that they can afford to live in because they can't get a job.
But I would like to say that quite beyond that group of people, who are poor and do have mental health issues, we have a new constellation of people called the working poor who we didn't have ten years ago. We have a 30-year structural change in incomes, where at the middle of the income pack wages have been absolutely stagnant, but not housing costs, not education costs, not energy costs, not all of the basics. So the savings rate has plummeted. We're not talking about mental health for people at the middle. We're talking about people who are not being paid more. Some people are being paid a lot more, but an awful lot of people are not being paid more for the work they're doing. In fact, they're being paid less. If they lose their job, they're likely to obtain a less-paying job. But the costs of the basics continue to rise.
With due respect, Mr. Lobb, I think we are facing a real disaster in the making if we just say that poverty is about somebody else, probably someone with a mental health problem, and I don't really need to deal with it with a program. We are going to have a wave of economic dislocation. This is going to affect you and everybody. You can predict poverty by postal code in your riding now.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I thank you for your comments. I think you missed my point.
My disappointment was that in the presentations today, nothing was mentioned about mental health. And not once would I ever suggest that this is the only issue. I understand the economic impacts. I understand the business climate, the need for stimulus, the whole point. I was just clearly wanting to mention that I didn't hear that today, and I thought I would, coming here today.
Thank you.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
In my turn, I want to thank you for being here today and to welcome you.
I'm going to get straight to the point. I find it comforting to see that there are still people like you who are still indignant about the situation in which we place certain categories of our fellow citizens.
We're seeing, in a striking manner, the impact of the measures and policies of two successive governments in Canada. Some colleagues here are realizing that the measures taken in the past have not only produced no results, but have also aggravated the situation.
You rightly emphasized that the only measures that have proven effective have been taken by certain provinces, whether it be acts or policies. One province has a policy and strategies, whereas others have only strategies.
You also say that some categories of the population are particularly hard-hit: women, heads of single-parent families, aboriginal persons, persons with disabilities, immigrants and single individuals.
I'm going to ask you a question that I put to other stakeholders who have appeared before us. We'll have to make recommendations to the House of Commons. Ms. Yalnizyan said that some things are urgent. You put a great deal of emphasis on employment insurance and I entirely agree with you. However, if one measure had to be put in place very quickly and could have an impact on all the groups I've just mentioned, what would it be?
12:25 p.m.
Outreach and Policy, Canada Without Poverty
I'd like to point the committee to the National Council of Welfare report, which I have here. I have marked in here the page where respondents said what they would like to see happen. They said that they would like to see a pan-Canadian guaranteed annual income scheme.
12:25 p.m.
Coordinator, Make Poverty History
I would say that raising the child tax benefit is one of the simplest and easiest things that could be done to deliver assistance to those most in need. For provinces that have a similar plan, that money would be available to them as well.
April 28th, 2009 / 12:25 p.m.
Senior Economist, Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
I have to say that there's no single thing that would help all of those groups you've mentioned. The single measure that would help the broadest sweep of people would be reforms to EI, but that would not touch all of the groups you've mentioned.
