Human Resources Committee on Oct. 8th, 2009

[Ken Georgetti]

Thank you.

This is a great system that was put in place a long time ago to help Canadians in times of unemployment, particularly seasonal workers and other workers. Over time it has been diluted and changed and modified, to the extent now that we find ourselves in a position where most unemployed can't get the insurance they paid for.

That's a travesty. That is, frankly, a theft of money that we deferred from our wages and our payrolls to protect us in times of need.

As I said, in fact, even to our Prime Minister, it matters not to me whether the government is Liberal or Conservative; the last name is still the government. Our government has made a system that was designed to help ordinary working people through tough times into a system of us paying money to be disbursed to people who frankly don't need it. Now Rosalie Washington, who does need it, and the others I've illustrated who are in dire need of this system, are being denied the insurance they need.

As I said before, if this were any other insurance package, there would be a lawsuit of magnificent proportions, and the judgment would be in favour of the needy, not the greedy.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Bill C-50 will not help everybody any more than the 14 best weeks did, we cannot kid ourselves. Three years ago, when the five-week extension was introduced, and pilot projects were set up, the Liberals were very satisfied. But pilot projects are sometimes only available in one area of the country and not others, and that is exactly what happened. The pilot projects on the five-week extension ran for three years. I would have thought that, after three years, the government would be in a position to determine whether workers need the five weeks or not.

When you look at the proposed changes, are you not concerned? We have proposals for pilot projects, even for temporary measures, rather than proposals for reforming the employment insurance system in a way that will help people who need it in the long term.

[Ken Georgetti]

Certainly. We agree completely. People need this system.

I saw in the paper yesterday comments from the mayor of Toronto, whose budget is going to go up--a 20% increase in welfare rates. Remember, the people you represent are also citizens of a province, are citizens of a municipality. So some people, some citizens, are picking up the tab at some place or another.

The problem we have with the system, Mr. Godin, is that we set up an insurance program federally so that the money would be paid here, and the debt is being transferred to the provinces and to the cities, where they're going to have to pay welfare in place of EI.

Frankly, we as taxpayers are paying twice. We paid our insurance. It wasn't there. We have to pay our taxes, whether they're municipal taxes or provincial taxes, to pick up the costs and the obligation of the federal government. It should be the obligation of the federal government to pay this bill.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I am not sure whether you are aware that the NDP currently has 12 bills before the House of Commons seeking to amend the employment insurance system. One of the reasons is that, earlier this decade, I personally tabled a bill proposing comprehensive changes to employment insurance. But the Liberals, who had a majority government at the time, said that it would be too expensive. They could perhaps accept some of the bills, reforming one element of the system at a time. The NDP has 12 bills, the Bloc has six, the Liberals have two, and the Conservatives have one. Changes have been suggested, but at this rate, if we continue to pass one bill each time there is an election, it will take 32 years to reform employment insurance.

[Ken Georgetti]

Frankly, you should all think.... I think the temptation of the size of this fund when it's in surplus is too much for a government to handle. I think the system needs to be overhauled, but the control can't be just with a majority government.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do you think that the bill will help only workers in Ontario or do you think that, in spite of its limitations, it will help workers all across Canada?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Mr. Godin, we're over time. I'll let him finish the answer to that question.

Mr. Weir.

[Erin Weir]

It will help some workers in all provinces. It is not only for Ontarians; it is for workers in all provinces, but it is not for all workers in all provinces.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We agree that not all workers will benefit, that is for sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move to the last round, the last questioner. Mr. Komarnicki, you have ten minutes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the responses that were made, and obviously, with passion and determination and with the request that Bill C-50 move quickly. I know Mr. Georgetti has indicated that you take what's on the table and keep working. It's not perfect, but it certainly addresses the needs of a good number of people. I read from your press release of September 14 that you were essentially pleased with the government's proposed changes, but as you say, there is more work to do.

What message do you have for the leader of the Liberal Party, the opposition, who opposed this particular legislature before it came to committee, and voted against it, presumably to try to force an election during this difficult economic time, when these benefits are what they are? What message would you have for him, and to the committee members here who oppose the legislation, notwithstanding that it's helping some of the people that are affected in this particular time?

[Ken Georgetti]

While we appreciate and share their concerns about the shortcomings of this bill, we've impressed upon them, and we continue to impress upon them, that we need to get this bill passed, because it will help a great number of people. But we ask them, as we ask you, to not stop working to improve employment insurance and to put it back into the state it should be, which is to provide protection for all workers who are unemployed, regardless of how many hours they've worked, how long they've worked, and where they come from to do that.

We've had the same message for them as we've had for you and all parliamentarians, which is to pass this bill and do more for unemployed people. It's not their fault that they're unemployed, and they need help. I think you would agree with that.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

In essence, you're saying quit playing politics with this issue and stand up and vote for the bill as it now is.

[Ken Georgetti]

I wouldn't accuse anyone in this room of playing politics. That's your job, quite frankly. But from our side to you, you haven't done enough for the unemployed as the governing party, and the message we have for you is to get back to the drawing table, talk to your Prime Minister, the Minister of HRSDC, and the finance minister to do the job you were elected to do. That is to represent and help the people who elected you here in Parliament.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

You would agree with me, though, that you would approach this in a piece-by-piece basis, do as much as you can for the moment to achieve what's available. I take it you agreed that the five weeks of additional benefits to the unemployed was a good step forward when it was introduced?

[Ken Georgetti]

Yes.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The extra moneys that were put into skills, training, and upgrading—the $1.5 billion on top of $2.5 billion—were a good step and something that you would have supported?

[Ken Georgetti]

Absolutely.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

We then expanded the work-sharing program that helped about 168,000 people to maintain and keep their jobs. You're saying that's a good step in terms of helping people?

[Ken Georgetti]

We've been on the record with that, absolutely.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

And certainly the step taken here will help additional people.

When you put all of that together, would you agree, then, that the steps are taken in the right direction?

[Ken Georgetti]

Yes. But to qualify that, it's still not enough, sir, and we'd like you to do more.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

There's always room for more, but you're satisfied with the steps that have been taken so far.

[Ken Georgetti]

We're not satisfied; we acknowledge that they're positive steps, but we think far more needs to be done.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Then again, Mr. Erin Weir, you said in the Hamilton Spectator of September 29, 2009, that the increasing number of exhaustees, those who are coming off the system, “underscores the importance of enacting the proposed benefit extension for some long-tenured workers”.

I take it you still stand by that, and you continue to call for speedy passage of Bill C-50?