Human Resources Committee on Nov. 5th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, September 30, 2009, we are considering Bill C-304, An Act to ensure secure, adequate, accessible and affordable housing for Canadians.

We will commence right now. We're working under a very tight timeline today.

I want to thank all of the witnesses in advance for being here today. We are going to start with Ms. Davies, the sponsor of the bill.

I'm going to give each witness or group seven minutes. If you'd like, I can give you the two-minute sign just to keep you on track. Then we'll go through questions and answers.

I'm not going to waste any more time, Ms. Davies. Thank you for being here today. It's your bill. You have seven minutes. The floor is all yours.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, at the last meeting, because of the number of witnesses, we had discussed allowing this whole meeting to be dedicated to witnesses, but I see that clause-by-clause has been added to the agenda.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We're going to try our best to get through clause-by-clause. I realize that people have commitments at 5:30. I've talked to the sponsor of the bill, who would like us, if we can, to get to clause-by-clause today. Considering it is her bill, we will do our best to get to that.

We'll just get going and we'll see how we make out today.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Keep it in mind that we need to cut this off at 5:30 because people have commitments.

Thank you, Ms. Davies. I apologize. Go ahead.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Chairperson of the committee.

To the members of the committee, thank you very much for inviting me here today to speak about Bill C-304.

To the witnesses who are here today, I can tell you that at this end of the table we're actually kind of excited, because many of us feel that there's been a lot of work on this issue for many years in order to develop a national housing strategy, and we're hoping this bill will be the vehicle. Maybe there will be other vehicles as well, but this bill will be a key element for the federal government to undertake what we believe is a core responsibility to Canadians, and that is the right to housing affordability, safety, shelter, and human dignity.

I'm sure that members have had an opportunity to look at the bill. It did pass second reading in the House. It's based on the premise that unfortunately in this country we still have a housing crisis, a housing affordability crisis, certainly for people who live below the poverty line, but also for the working poor and for average people who are finding it harder and harder to find housing affordability.

I represent the riding of East Vancouver. It's one of the neighbourhood communities across the country that for many years now has been particularly hard hit with a housing crisis. When I was the housing critic for the NDP and did two national tours across the country, I learned that in many communities, both in large cities and in smaller communities, there are severe housing shortage issues and there's homelessness.

We have had various federal programs over the years. We've had homelessness programs and we've had emergency housing programs. Certainly in the last budget we had the infrastructure money that was provided for housing, but I would say that if you talk to anyone in Canada who knows about this issue, they will tell you it's been inadequate and it's been very piecemeal.

What's been lacking is an overall federal strategy in partnership with the provinces, territories, municipalities, first nations, and communities. That's what this bill is attempting to do. It's attempting to address the housing needs of millions of Canadians who don't have the resources or can't rely on the market for housing security.

Today a report released from the Co-operative Housing Federation of Canada said that four million Canadians, including 750,000 children, are living in core housing need. There are many other reports, and you'll hear about some of them today. Maybe the numbers are different sometimes, but we're talking in the millions in terms of the number of Canadians who are impacted.

I think some members are aware that in 2007 the UN rapporteur came to Canada, travelled across the country, looked at different housing situations in different communities, and came to the conclusion that “Canada should adopt a national strategy on affordable housing that engages all levels of government, including Aboriginal governments, Aboriginal people, civil society and the private sector”.

What's interesting to note, in terms of dealing with this bill, is that it doesn't come out of thin air. It identifies a need that many organizations, on their own, with their own research, have identified. I would like to hand out a list, in both languages, of the current endorsements of the bill, if someone could pass this around. We have endorsements from municipalities across the country, for example, Vancouver, Sudbury, municipalities in New Brunswick. We have major organizations endorsing it, including: the Alliance to End Homelessness; Amnesty International; Canada Without Poverty; the Wellesley Institute, which is here today; and the MultiFaith Alliance to End Homelessness, from Toronto. There's a whole list here that you can look at of these are groups that have endorsed the bill.

In addition, I want to make the point that many other organizations independently have come to the same conclusion that we must have a national housing strategy, including the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, the Salvation Army, and Campaign 2000. These are all well-known, credible organizations. I think they're identifying something that is very evident when you visit many local communities, which is that there are still so many people living in substandard housing, housing that's too expensive, or housing that's threatened. Or people are on the street or one paycheque away from homelessness.

What we're saying today with this bill is that the federal government has to get beyond the piecemeal approach. What was put in the last budget was certainly welcome, but it was very clearly part of economic stimulus. It wasn't an ongoing housing program. We need to develop a national strategy and the federal government needs to take leadership on that.

This bill sets out the framework, and it's a very basic framework, for accomplishing that. It's a framework based on partnership and on identifying housing needs and setting timetables and objectives. If that can be done, we believe there will be millions of Canadians who will have some hope for the future in terms of what they can expect for their own housing security.

I'm glad we're dealing with the bill today. I certainly invite members' comments and questions, and we'll obviously hear from the other witnesses who are experts on this matter.

Thank you, Chairperson.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Ms. Davies.

I'm going to go to Mr. Gillard and Mr. Eddy, from the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association.

You have seven minutes, gentlemen.

[David Eddy, President, Canadian Housing and Renewal Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I want to say that in my day job I'm executive director of the Vancouver Native Housing Society. We provide housing for urban aboriginals in Vancouver. We have about 600 units there. All of our projects, I'm proud to say, are in east Vancouver, in Libby's constituency. I've worked in the downtown east side, what's known as Canada's poorest postal code, for 25 years. We couldn't have a better champion for social and affordable housing than Libby, so it just makes the day a little more special for me to be here.

With respect to CHRA, today we proudly released a policy paper titled “An Affordable Housing Policy for Canada”. When we set out to develop this paper, we anticipated that on the day of its release we would call on Parliament to bring forward a bill like Bill C-304. We are more than pleased that instead we can focus on discussing the specific content of a bill to mandate the creation of a national housing strategy, and that the bill has passed through two of the three House votes required to send it to the Senate and eventually into law.

I'm going to turn this over to the acting executive director of the Canadian Housing and Renewal Association, Geoff Gillard, to speak on some of the specifics.

Thank you very much for allowing us to be here.

[Geoffrey Gillard, Acting Executive Director, Canadian Housing and Renewal Association]

Thank you.

First of all, I would like to congratulate members of Parliament for bringing this bill through two readings and to committee. It's really very exciting for an organization like ours to see that this has come to this point, and we're excited to be here.

I want to start by talking about just a few overarching principles we think are critical to an affordable national housing strategy. Canada's national housing strategy should support the housing system to meet the needs of all Canadians. While we are an association that focuses on the needs of Canadians with moderate and low incomes, we recognize that for all Canadians to be properly housed, it's critical that the entire system work well throughout the spectrum.

To do this, the national housing strategy must first of all be long term, taking a view 10 years and even 20 years down the road. A long-term approach would be taken in other parts of the wider infrastructure industry. While we're serving and housing Canadians in need, we're also building infrastructure, and we need a long-term view on how we implement that project.

The national housing strategy also needs to have measurable outcomes that we can monitor on an ongoing basis, thus ensuring progress towards our goals. Those outcomes or measurements need to be more than simply an accounting of the number of units we're developing. They need to relate to whether or not we're actually making progress in reducing the level of core housing need that exists.

Libby referred to the CHF Canada Dunning report that came out just today. It's unfortunate that core need isn't budging despite the efforts and the investments we're making. It's essentially the same as it was five years ago.

A national strategy, while critical, needs to continue to recognize that housing happens on the ground and that decisions around how federal and provincial and municipal dollars will be used need to be made locally. This strategy needs to connect, guide, and inform local strategy and local decision-making bodies, which will ensure the money is spent well and people are housed.

The bill does an excellent job of talking about the moral, legal, and social cases for putting a strategy in place. I want to just expand a little bit on the economic case for putting a national housing strategy in place, because that's another important consideration.

First, each home built creates a minimum of three jobs, that is, three person-years of employment, and we all know that the housing sector makes an enormous contribution to the overall Canadian economy. The affordable housing sector is an important, very active, and sizeable part of Canada's housing sector.

We should also continue to invest in existing housing to ensure that the life of that housing is extended. It's a relatively cost-effective way of providing housing. If we don't do that, housing falls out of the portfolio, so we're building up, but we're losing on the other end. We need to continue to invest in existing housing. At the same time, we need to make our housing more energy efficient. That's critical. I was pleased to see that referenced in the bill.

Cities like Vancouver and communities like Whistler continue to experience challenges in providing housing for the service sector and that the business community requires. I'll stop there with my economic case because I want to move on to a couple of other things, but affordable housing, relative to inaction on housing, is really a cost-effective strategy.

Before I run out of time, I want to comment on the specifics of the bill. First, I want to emphasize the importance of having the non-profit and private sectors engaged in the creation of a strategy when we get to the point of actually putting the strategy in place. We have a lot to contribute, and these are the people who will actually implement the strategy in the end.

Where you do specify priority groups and priority needs in the bill, we hope and encourage that it will be in the spirit of providing examples, and that it will not limit the groups and the priorities that might be identified locally in various communities, because they differ across Canada.

I would encourage you to reference barrier-free housing in paragraph 3(3)(g), where you talk about addressing homelessness through your housing strategy. Barrier-free housing, or “housing first”, takes people into supportive housing right off the streets. It's where we need to focus our investments.

Within the national strategy, we need to have a strategy to end homelessness, and we really need to make sure that the piece around housing aboriginal people is front and centre in the strategy, particularly for urban aboriginal populations, which are often left out of the programs.

I'll leave it there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you. I know it's tough to get hours and hours of dialogue into seven minutes. You can appreciate how difficult it is for the MPs when they start asking questions.

We're going to move to Mr. Smith.

Welcome, sir. I realize that you are representing the Assembly of First Nations. The floor is yours for seven minutes.

[Dewey Smith, Senior Policy Advisor-Housing, Housing and Infrastructure Directorate, Assembly of First Nations]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank the members of the committee for the opportunity to present a first nation perspective on Bill C-340.

The Assembly of First Nations is a nationally representative organization of 630-plus first nation communities throughout the country. The AFN is an operational arm designed to present the views of first nations through their leaders. The message that the AFN national chief clearly presents is that our communities and leadership know we face real and daunting daily issues that require our diligence and our commitment.

But a critical look at our current environment reveals the daily pressing crisis faced by first nation leaders and communities in relation to housing. We understand the importance of a role in establishing a collaborative and inclusive condition to create real change, and that's where we see the opportunity of this bill. It's an open opportunity for dialogue that will allow the voices of people and communities to come forward.

That having been said, I will point out that there's a clear opportunity for those of common purpose to come together to define common strategies and solutions.

First nation leadership has stated the importance of representing housing interests of their first nation members whether they live on-reserve or off-reserve. There's always been a distinct barrier for first nation leadership in representing their interests in the provincial/municipal environment. If we look at the transition of people from on-reserve to off-reserve, and the problems encountered in relation to the urban environment by those who are leaving real problems on first nation reserves for real problems off-reserve, we must give credence to the fact that we need to pay attention to this transition.

We don't wish to sit by the wayside and watch strategies, policies, programs, and activities continue to be developed and created by the Government of Canada and then imposed as external interventions. Up to this point, if you take a look at the involvement of first nations in the National Housing Act, this has been going on for 50 years plus and there has never been a national strategy.

There has never been an inclusion of first nations in the development of policy, in the thinking of departments or agencies of the Government of Canada, and we would ask the fundamental question: why not? We see this bill as an opportunity to shift the thinking and say that if there is going to be a solution, there's going to be a solution that's derived from the direct involvement of first nations, which are an immediate part of the problem.

The AFN has stated in the past and continues to state today that there's a need for multilateral dialogue to discuss all housing issues found in the continuum of housing need. I guess the statement is that first nations don't expect federal departments and agencies to represent their interests in the dialogue at multilateral tables concerning the downloading of social housing to the provinces and to the municipalities without the inclusion of those who are directly involved in the problem in the first place.

We feel that we have a direct interest. It's essential that first nations be included in this multilateral dialogue with the federal government and its provincial, territorial, and municipal counterparts, and that we do not have the federal government departments and agencies acting on our behalf in relation to that dialogue.

We would like to see a strategy that lays out a comprehensive viewpoint allowing for first nation considerations and for supportive capacity development measures to achieve those considerations.

We state our full support for Bill C-304 and do so in a spirit of optimism that reflects what we know can take place if we create a collaborative environment that allows for strategies to emerge within this multi-jurisdictional environment. Again, we don't expect government departments and agencies on the federal side to represent the interests of first nations while they are excluded from the formation of the policies and strategies.

I'd reinforce that this has been one of the significant factors to our detriment over the last number of years. We have not been included in policy decisions in the manner in which the federal government proceeds with programs, initiatives, activities, and other efforts.

We would ask that a national strategy meet the continuum of housing needs. We know there's an effort to focus first nations on private home ownership at the expense of such things as hidden homelessness and the deterioration of the social housing portfolio. We want to make sure that we're meeting the needs for emergency shelters for the elderly and disabled, for community-owned assets, social housing stock, and rent-to-own and private home ownership.

This national strategy needs to acknowledge what secure, adequate, accessible, and affordable housing is in the first place, because what's being presented in the bill and what the function and the actions are of federal departments and agencies constitute two different things. That needs to be considered.

When we get down to steps and measures that need to be taken and that we fully support, we want to link first nation leadership to existing and emerging multilateral tables of dialogue that will result in the ability to harmonize programs and services between on-reserve and off-reserve. Currently they're distinctly separated and have no relationship with one another. I'm not sure whether that's by design or not.

We want to participate in a long-term strategy that addresses housing needs for more culturally appropriate social housing, transitional housing for women and men, second-stage housing, and mental health programs that involve directly those whom the programs are meant to serve--not policy by exclusion and not external interventions.

We want to create new relationships that allow first nations to access programs, activities, and initiatives in the off-reserve environment. It's not the people of first nations who need to access them in a community urban or rural environment; it's leadership and community that need to sit down at these multilateral dialogue tables to determine how a seamless transition can occur between on-reserve and off-reserve and to determine how the services and programs that take place can take place.

Lastly, we want to create a first nation institutional framework for housing that assists in developing appropriate capacities for sustainable housing strategies, and we want to link that framework to the off-reserve multi-jurisdictional environment.

The bottom line is that the first nation perspective is one of stepping up to the plate and saying that we want to be included, that we add value to the effort, and that a national strategy is a very fine goal and we are providing a commitment, I think, to participating and actively moving the issue forward.

I thank you for your consideration.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much, Mr. Smith, for being here.

We're now going to move to the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada. We have Mr. Hutchinson and Ms. Beazley.

You have seven minutes, please.

[Don Hutchinson, Vice-President and General Legal Counsel, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the opportunity to speak to this bill today.

The notice from the clerk said we'd have 10 minutes, but we'll do our best to get down to seven.

The Evangelical Fellowship of Canada is the national association of evangelical Christians. The EFC's affiliates consist of 39 denominations, 125 ministry organizations and, additionally, more than 1,000 individual church congregations across the country. In general, there are estimated to be approximately four million Canadians who are evangelicals.

As Christians, we believe each person is created by God, thereby possessing inherent dignity and worth. This affirmation and respect for the life of every human being compels us to care about the people around us in our communities, our nation, and around the world.

We know it to be true that, next to government, the church is the second-largest provider of care and housing to the poor. There are hundreds of churches, ministry organizations, and street-level agencies addressing Canada's homelessness crisis in practical ways. What they do and what they know first-hand is vital to the public policy discussion on homelessness.

The EFC recognized the need for a strong voice from within the evangelical community to communicate on this issue, both on public policy and back into the evangelical community. To that end, in 2003 the EFC engaged in a partnership with leaders of significant Canadian Christian organizations that work among our nation's poor and homeless. The goal of the partnership was to create a national shared voice in advocacy and to address this question: what can we do better than what each of us is doing on our own?

At the street level, our national round table on poverty and homelessness is the product of those discussions. Although the EFC has a number of affiliates that are engaged in the development and provision of housing—

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Hutchinson. I've asked you to fit 10 minutes into seven and now the translators are having a hard time keeping up. I need you to slow it down just a little. If you go over a little bit, we'll still let you keep going.

[Don Hutchinson]

Thanks. I'm skipping as many words as I can on the fly as well, I can assure you.

Although the EFC has a number of affiliates that are engaged in the development and provision of housing for a range of persons in need of affordable housing, this joint submission with StreetLevel will focus primarily on the needs of those who are poor and homeless.

[Julia Beazley, Coordinator, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada]

StreetLevel's membership is comprised of leaders from 13 Canadian Christian agencies that work among our nation's poor and homeless and are dedicated to addressing systemic, sociological, economic, cultural, and spiritual deficits that contribute to poverty and homelessness in Canada. Together we're representative of the many Canadian people of Christian faith who believe that the care of poor and vulnerable people of all ages is the central tenet of our faith, of good government, and of a responsible, compassionate citizenship.

We've committed significant resources to this purpose, yet we have witnessed the rise of homelessness as a crisis of disturbing proportions and of societal, systemic, and individual complexity. We believe that people who are poor and powerless by societal standards matter greatly to our nation and we offer our voice on their behalf, bringing with us, in our words, our understanding, and our experience, those who are not able to be present to speak for themselves.

One of the core purposes of StreetLevel is to move the church and government towards the creation of healthy homes for those in our Canadian community who are homeless, living on the streets in shelters, or in inadequate, insecure housing.

[Don Hutchinson]

The EFC endorses and supports this purpose. We say “church and government” because each has a unique responsibility and role to play in meeting the needs of vulnerable Canadians. These roles are so critical that the failure of either to fulfill that role and responsibility will mean that the housing and homelessness crisis in Canada will continue to worsen.

We are convinced that government, particularly the federal government, has a key role to play in leading by example in priority and in policy. The federal government is responsible for setting the tone of who we are as a country and who we are as Canadians. It is important that the federal government establish the “30,000 foot level” vision and direction for the nation, and together with the provinces and territories, agree to standards and measures for housing adequacy and availability in Canada.

We recognize that addressing poverty and homelessness in Canada is not without its challenges. There are differing beliefs about proper specific policies and initiatives. There are jurisdictional issues and partisan sensitivities. These must be overcome. It is time to get beyond these challenges.

[Julia Beazley]

Providing Bill C-304 the study and consideration it merits is a strong step in the right direction. Canadians are waiting to hear a vision from our leaders for poverty reduction and a plan for housing in Canada.

We recognize and applaud measures taken by the federal government to direct funds towards a wide range of housing initiatives across the country. This investment is invaluable to the service providers and from those who benefit from their work, but it's time to move beyond a piecemeal approach, which is ultimately inefficient and insufficient. It's time for coordinated national action on affordable housing.

Housing is an issue that transcends jurisdictional issues. Housing and poverty affect all Canadians. There's a need, therefore, for a strategy that crosses provincial and territorial boundaries, that does not stop at the border of one city to the next, and that ensures a consistent standard of available housing from coast to coast to coast. It's unacceptable for the federal government to not take action on the grounds that housing isn't its jurisdiction.

[Don Hutchinson]

Historically, affordable housing has received funding from all levels of government as well as the efforts of charitable and not-for-profit organizations, many of them faith-based. However, it has become clear that there is a greater need for the federal government to accept the responsibility for and show leadership on the issue of affordable housing, to set the tone and the direction for the nation in the approach to this issue, and to work in collaboration with the provinces and our aboriginal neighbours to develop strategies to address this growing crisis.

Only the Prime Minister and appropriate ministers of the government of Canada are in a position to initiate the first ministers meetings that can begin the process of establishing a clear, consistent strategy for the nation and encourage the necessary action from other levels of government.

The Mental Health Commission of Canada, led by Senator Kirby, was a good example of the federal government recognizing the importance of taking leadership and initiative on what is generally viewed as a provincial issue. Bill C-304 creates an opportunity for the current government to do something similar.

When the time comes to vote on this bill at third reading, it will be important for Canadians to know that the federal government and all parties are committed to creating a legacy of social justice for all Canadians. This commitment must be expressed not only in words, but also in plans, policies, budgets, and programs that demonstrate this commitment.

[Julia Beazley]

As Canadians whose faith calls us to engage with the poor and homeless, we ask that the government maintain space for us to participate in the discussion and implementation of the housing strategy.

In a recent submission to the finance committee on the budget, we recommended that the government, in cooperation with the provinces, territories, and indigenous communities, establish a national housing strategy with clear targets and timelines aimed at ensuring that every resident of Canada has access to housing that is safe, healthy, dignified, and truly affordable. This bill reflects those concepts and it is an important opportunity to provide a framework within which governments can work together to address the housing needs of a range of communities.

In 2006, at the StreetLevel conference in Ottawa, we introduced a document called the “Ottawa Manifesto”. The first point says the, under “We all need homes, not just housing”:

A home is more than just four walls and a roof. It’s a whole life situation that means being welcomed into a safe, secure and dignified place to live; healthy, nurturing relationships; the opportunity for education, meaningful work for reasonable pay; and to worship, dream and play in vibrant community. Housing initiatives need to take these values into account, and aim at creating far more than “affordable” space.

[Don Hutchinson]

The church is uniquely equipped and positioned to work with government in coming alongside in developing a strategy, just as we have come alongside in providing community with and for those who most benefit from affordable housing--more than a house, a home.

Poverty and homelessness are complex issues that defy a single simple solution. There is no such thing as “the homeless”. Each person who finds himself homeless or living on the streets is a unique individual with a unique story. We do a disservice when we fail to recognize this or engage in our efforts at seeking solutions to identify their needs.

The members of StreetLevel and others within the evangelical community are engaged in issues of poverty and homelessness first-hand. While we may not be able to offer all the dollars-and-cents specifics of policy development, we understand well the human currency: the complexities, realities, and roots of poverty and homelessness in human terms.

[Julia Beazley]

In conclusion, the time has come for collaborative, coordinated action in Canada on affordable housing. The government has an opportunity, in Bill C-304, to show vision and leadership in initiating the development of a strategy. We encourage all parliamentarians to seize this opportunity.

The development of the strategies should be inclusive of stakeholders from the faith- and community-based agencies. They've already engaged in the creative thinking and learning by trial and error. They know what works and what doesn't. They understand that people should be moving from street to housing to home in community, that street to housing alone will fail in the long term, and that home and community cannot be mutually exclusive.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.

I'm now going to have to ask members to be equally as flexible in that we're running out of time. We're only going to have time for one round and you will each have five minutes. I want to thank you for your patience.

Mr. Kennedy, welcome to the committee.

[Gerard Kennedy, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you.

Well, it's more of a challenge than we would like, but first of all, to the sponsor of the bill, thank you for bringing the bill forward. We have a framework.

We are in this kind of hurry, I guess, though, are we, in terms of the chance to deal with this process-wise this afternoon rather than taking more time at other times? Is that what we want to do with the bill?